Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked my way through college, most of the kids I knew that dropped out were getting their college paid for. Not saying the were alchoholics but yes partying was a big problem. If you worked, you ended up spending weekends in the computer lab.

When you are writing your OWN check for tuition you value your education more.

Apparently all the people on this thread never partied and were grateful for their parents paying for their tuition. I did not meet you in college.

What in the community college hell school did you attend that A) A ton of kids were dropping out like flies and B)The ones who dropped out were having
????

And how terribly small and dsyfunctional must your social circle have been that you did not meet anyone in college who was able to party AND graduate? That's what most college students do.

I'll be paying the tiny gap between DC's merit scholarships and tuition including the 12 cents his financial aid award attributed to work study. I don't want DC to worry about studying and juggling a job--even an easy on-campus workstudy job, especially during freshman year. There's enough work to be done transitioning from HS to college, one state to another, your own room to a tiny dorm room and roommate, etc. (DC is an only child who has never had to share a bedroom.)

I didn't work during the college years and it made my college experience a breeze---and enjoyable. I'm no worse for the wear as an employee today because I did not work my way through school.

This does seem odd. My college had something like a 94% graduation rate. The 6% who left usually transferred to other colleges, they didn't drop out for a life of leisure. Some didn't like the cold, or the small town, or the smallish school. Some maybe had trouble with the academic workload. I didn't know all the kids who left but I didn't get the impression it was because they were or weren't working. And for the 94% who stayed there were plenty who were on fin aid and plenty whose parents paid the tuition.

Obviously PP was 'exaggerating' in order to make a point.

The 1 kid I know who dropped out did so because of money-her single mom could not pay the tuition and had to go home mid-year.

No one with a modicum of commonsense believes paying for your child's education will result in too much partying leading to drop out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a similar attitude toward hiring those who've played team sports. I shy away from those who've never been part of a team at a competitive level. My workplace is a team effort and I can't take a chance on someone who hasn't been part of a team.

So you're in a field that requires a lot of hand-eye coordination? That employees be able-bodied?

Not the PP, but the ability to be part of a team is key in many workplaces. There's not a lot of benefit to hiring the worker who is only out for himself.

No, but there are plenty of people who played team sports who are nonetheless selfish assholes, and plenty of people who are great at collaboration who don't play team sports.

I *know* it is a sacred tenet among some people that playing team sports makes you a "team player," but that doesn't make it so.

Laxbros achieve professional success? Think about explanations other than earned achievement.

You seem to agree that teamwork is important. If so, would you agree that teamwork is a learned/acquired skill? Is so, would you please provide examples of the best ways to learn/acquire those skills apart from team sports?

Scouting, orchestra, band, chorus, theatre, volunteering for Habitat for Humanity, debate team, science olympiad........

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked my way through college, most of the kids I knew that dropped out were getting their college paid for. Not saying the were alchoholics but yes partying was a big problem. If you worked, you ended up spending weekends in the computer lab.

When you are writing your OWN check for tuition you value your education more.

Apparently all the people on this thread never partied and were grateful for their parents paying for their tuition. I did not meet you in college.

What in the community college hell school did you attend that A) A ton of kids were dropping out like flies and B)The ones who dropped out were having
????

And how terribly small and dsyfunctional must your social circle have been that you did not meet anyone in college who was able to party AND graduate? That's what most college students do.

I'll be paying the tiny gap between DC's merit scholarships and tuition including the 12 cents his financial aid award attributed to work study. I don't want DC to worry about studying and juggling a job--even an easy on-campus workstudy job, especially during freshman year. There's enough work to be done transitioning from HS to college, one state to another, your own room to a tiny dorm room and roommate, etc. (DC is an only child who has never had to share a bedroom.)

I didn't work during the college years and it made my college experience a breeze---and enjoyable. I'm no worse for the wear as an employee today because I did not work my way through school.

This does seem odd. My college had something like a 94% graduation rate. The 6% who left usually transferred to other colleges, they didn't drop out for a life of leisure. Some didn't like the cold, or the small town, or the smallish school. Some maybe had trouble with the academic workload. I didn't know all the kids who left but I didn't get the impression it was because they were or weren't working. And for the 94% who stayed there were plenty who were on fin aid and plenty whose parents paid the tuition.

Anonymous wrote:I worked my way through college, most of the kids I knew that dropped out were getting their college paid for. Not saying the were alchoholics but yes partying was a big problem. If you worked, you ended up spending weekends in the computer lab.

When you are writing your OWN check for tuition you value your education more.

Apparently all the people on this thread never partied and were grateful for their parents paying for their tuition. I did not meet you in college.

What in the community college hell school did you attend that A) A ton of kids were dropping out like flies and B)The ones who dropped out were having their college paid for????

And how terribly small and dsyfunctional must your social circle have been that you did not meet anyone in college who was able to party AND graduate? That's what most college students do.

I'll be paying the tiny gap between DC's merit scholarships and tuition including the 12 cents his financial aid award attributed to work study. I don't want DC to worry about studying and juggling a job--even an easy on-campus workstudy job, especially during freshman year. There's enough work to be done transitioning from HS to college, one state to another, your own room to a tiny dorm room and roommate, etc. (DC is an only child who has never had to share a bedroom.)

I didn't work during the college years and it made my college experience a breeze---and enjoyable. I'm no worse for the wear as an employee today because I did not work my way through school.

I worked my way through college, most of the kids I knew that dropped out were getting their college paid for. Not saying the were alchoholics but yes partying was a big problem. If you worked, you ended up spending weekends in the computer lab.

When you are writing your OWN check for tuition you value your education more.

Apparently all the people on this thread never partied and were grateful for their parents paying for their tuition. I did not meet you in college.

My .02

1. If you can afford to pay for your child's education, by all means, do so. That will give them the foundation from which to spring and fly for the rest of their lives. They have a lot of years of employment ahead of them after graduation. If you can afford to allow them to focus on growing up, living independently, learning--both academically and managing their time, then do so.

2. Just as high schoolers with several AP classes but no job struggle to manage their time and maintain grades, so do college students. AP coursework is basically (prep for) college work, so imagine what it's like while they're in school. College students also participate in activities, community service, etc.

3. I never worked during college and I'm glad for it. I worked during the summers, but I'm thrilled I didn't have to try to juggle school work with a job.

4. To those claiming they usually don't hire students who didn't work during college. Most employers have a lowered standard for those coming right out of college. They don't expect a kid who's had their head in books/on a college campus to come to them with experience. They also understand that most school kid jobs do not require the type of teamwork needed in a real job setting. Teamwork is not needed at Subway, Footlocker, the movie theater or wherever else 'uneducated' kids get summer jobs. I didn't even mention my little summer gigs on my resume and had absolutely no problems getting job offers. Neither did any of my unemployed cohorts. However, I can imagine SOME being jealous they had to work and taking their resentment out on non-working college grads.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You seem to agree that teamwork is important. If so, would you agree that teamwork is a learned/acquired skill? Is so, would you please provide examples of the best ways to learn/acquire those skills apart from team sports?

I think the urge to be part of a group is partially hardwired, actually. Introvert/extrovert. I played team sports in high school and college even though I need a lot of time apart; I loved the physical aspect of certain sports enough that I was willing to tolerate all the togethernesss.

But collaborating -- which I think is what you mean by "teamwork" -- is something you can learn by contributing to any group: a church, a charity, a club.

I think this is a fair point, but in more than 20 years I have yet to come across an applicant that was involved in any collaborative church group, collaborative charity group or collaborative club on a daily basis. This points to the unique experience that team sports offers. Also, in many legal or business jobs, there is a very competitive aspect that can’t be replicated in non-competitive collaborative ventures.

I think the Forbes article is spot on.

I haven't researched empirical evidence, but I can offer my personal experience. My parents did not save anything for my college education and were going through a bankruptcy when I graduated from high school, so did not contribute to my undergraduate education. I paid my way through a private university with minimal loans with an ROTC scholarship, private merit scholarships, and part-time work (although my job allowed me to study while working). This did mean that I was obligated to serve in the military as an officer, which was not my dream career, but has been a good stepping stone to other opportunities. Overall, I had a positive experience, and believe I learned to manage money and time well.

That said, DH and I are saving for our children's college educations. While I don't expect to be able to fully fund private university tuitions plus room/board, I would like to be able to help significantly and hope they are not burdened by astronomical loan debt.

Anonymous wrote:

You seem to agree that teamwork is important. If so, would you agree that teamwork is a learned/acquired skill? Is so, would you please provide examples of the best ways to learn/acquire those skills apart from team sports?

I think the urge to be part of a group is partially hardwired, actually. Introvert/extrovert. I played team sports in high school and college even though I need a lot of time apart; I loved the physical aspect of certain sports enough that I was willing to tolerate all the togethernesss.

But collaborating -- which I think is what you mean by "teamwork" -- is something you can learn by contributing to any group: a church, a charity, a club.

FWIW on women and team sports:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alanaglass/2013/06/24/ernst-young-studies-the-connection-between-female-executives-and-sports/


The study found that 90% of the women surveyed had played sports either at primary and secondary school, or during university or other tertiary education, with this proportion rising to 96% among C-suite women. Moreover, in comparing C-level female respondents to other female managers, far more had participated in sports at a higher level. Ultimately, 55% of the C-suite women had played sports at a university level, compared with 39% of other female managers.

The respondents included 821 senior managers and executives (40% female, 60% male) who work at companies with annual revenues in excess of US$250 million. Together they represented 15 different countries (Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Russia, South Africa, United Kingdom, and United States) and a wide range of industries including but not limited to agriculture, automotive, entertainment, media and publishing, government/public sector, financial services, and technology.

I think we're conflating two topics here: working during college and paying for college. It is nearly impossible for an 18 year old to make enough money, working part or even full-time, to pay for all tuition, living expenses, books, etc. as another PP mentioned, in actuality a lot of students "pay" for college with loans they won't owe until they've graduated. Likely, most of them don't grasp the enormity of the loan amounts and how it will actually affect their lives post-college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a similar attitude toward hiring those who've played team sports. I shy away from those who've never been part of a team at a competitive level. My workplace is a team effort and I can't take a chance on someone who hasn't been part of a team.

So you're in a field that requires a lot of hand-eye coordination? That employees be able-bodied?

Not the PP, but the ability to be part of a team is key in many workplaces. There's not a lot of benefit to hiring the worker who is only out for himself.

No, but there are plenty of people who played team sports who are nonetheless selfish assholes, and plenty of people who are great at collaboration who don't play team sports.

I *know* it is a sacred tenet among some people that playing team sports makes you a "team player," but that doesn't make it so.

Laxbros achieve professional success? Think about explanations other than earned achievement.

You seem to agree that teamwork is important. If so, would you agree that teamwork is a learned/acquired skill? Is so, would you please provide examples of the best ways to learn/acquire those skills apart from team sports?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a similar attitude toward hiring those who've played team sports. I shy away from those who've never been part of a team at a competitive level. My workplace is a team effort and I can't take a chance on someone who hasn't been part of a team.

So you're in a field that requires a lot of hand-eye coordination? That employees be able-bodied?

Not the PP, but the ability to be part of a team is key in many workplaces. There's not a lot of benefit to hiring the worker who is only out for himself.

No, but there are plenty of people who played team sports who are nonetheless selfish assholes, and plenty of people who are great at collaboration who don't play team sports.

I *know* it is a sacred tenet among some people that playing team sports makes you a "team player," but that doesn't make it so.

Laxbros achieve professional success? Think about explanations other than earned achievement.

There are exceptions to every rule, but I've had a lot of luck sticking with people who've played team sports. Those who didn't tend to was out at some point. This is especially true among women, so I'm not just talking lax bros.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a similar attitude toward hiring those who've played team sports. I shy away from those who've never been part of a team at a competitive level. My workplace is a team effort and I can't take a chance on someone who hasn't been part of a team.

So you're in a field that requires a lot of hand-eye coordination? That employees be able-bodied?

Not the PP, but the ability to be part of a team is key in many workplaces. There's not a lot of benefit to hiring the worker who is only out for himself.

No, but there are plenty of people who played team sports who are nonetheless selfish assholes, and plenty of people who are great at collaboration who don't play team sports.

I *know* it is a sacred tenet among some people that playing team sports makes you a "team player," but that doesn't make it so.

Laxbros achieve professional success? Think about explanations other than earned achievement.

I think everyone should take a job that is basically scutwork and learn to do it well without complaint, because people who think necessary parts of their job are beneath them are a huge PITA.

So true. It's good for kids to learn that work is honorable and that anyone who works an honest job to the best of their ability is to be respected. I worked a number of jobs in high school and college that I got through by saying the phrase "All work is honorable" over and over again, like a mantra. Also, those kind of jobs go a long way toward focusing your mind on earning that college degree!