Reading literature helps with vocabulary, creativity, reasoning, and history. I learned more from reading novels than history books.

to be honest op, I cane to this thread to insult you, but you may have a point. I just can't figure out what you are proposing would be better than reading novels and plays for teaching reading, reasoning, and writing skills. If you are a scientist you know that scientific papers are hardly quality prose, they are written in pure jargon, and the place to learn about how to interpret that jargon is science class, not English. Your laundry list names things that should be covered in other classes (history, medicine), social sciences most high schools don't bother with (econ, law), and stuff I have no idea what you mean ("industry"? "finances"?).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I am a scientist, so is DH. I just think that fiction being a "model" of true life is crazy, why not just use real life? One Shakespeare play per year in HS should be adequate. The rest should be about history, industry, economics, medicine, law, finances and so on. These would make excellent topics for and "English" teacher to work with.
In the old days, they knew less about these topics and we did not include them in a classical education, but times have changed. A child can learn to be a great writer by reading history books instead of Greek Mythology.

BTW, we have tons of books in our house, but no fiction.

I am always amazed, in a bad way, when educated people put down fiction. How do you feel about art? What about music? If you don't believe in literature, there is no reason you should value those either.

You're doing your kids a major disservice by not having fiction in the house. On top of being educational (in terms of information and facts as well as empathy and the human condition), reading fiction is FUN!

It is not that I don't believe that fiction has a role. I just feel that other things have an even more important role. It takes seconds to look at a painting, and if you love it, you stare at it for 10 minutes. It takes a long time to read a book, with all that work the book should at least be educational.

No, reading a book doesn't take me a long time, nor do I consider it work. Maybe your reading fluency is lacking. My nearly 7 year old devours books, as do I. All types, fiction and non.

Yes, this! Reading is a real pleasure for our whole family. I hope your children aren't picking up your bad attitudes about literature.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I am a scientist, so is DH. I just think that fiction being a "model" of true life is crazy, why not just use real life? One Shakespeare play per year in HS should be adequate. The rest should be about history, industry, economics, medicine, law, finances and so on. These would make excellent topics for and "English" teacher to work with.
In the old days, they knew less about these topics and we did not include them in a classical education, but times have changed. A child can learn to be a great writer by reading history books instead of Greek Mythology.

BTW, we have tons of books in our house, but no fiction.

I am always amazed, in a bad way, when educated people put down fiction. How do you feel about art? What about music? If you don't believe in literature, there is no reason you should value those either.

You're doing your kids a major disservice by not having fiction in the house. On top of being educational (in terms of information and facts as well as empathy and the human condition), reading fiction is FUN!

It is not that I don't believe that fiction has a role. I just feel that other things have an even more important role. It takes seconds to look at a painting, and if you love it, you stare at it for 10 minutes. It takes a long time to read a book, with all that work the book should at least be educational.

No, reading a book doesn't take me a long time, nor do I consider it work. Maybe your reading fluency is lacking. My nearly 7 year old devours books, as do I. All types, fiction and non.

When I was in high school, I took classes like English, math, history, biology, chemistry, physics, and drivers ed. We only read fiction in English, so what's the beef ?

+10000

At the risk of stating the obvious, shouldn't the focus of an English lit class be . . . Literature?

When I was in high school, I took classes like English, math, history, biology, chemistry, physics, and drivers ed. We only read fiction in English, so what's the beef ?

Why do we suddenly have so many anti-intelletual parenting posts? From the thrid grader mom wants school to teach only hand washing to this mom doesn't want to see anything fictional?

Your issue is that you just don't realize how educational fiction is. Perhaps by not reading fiction you're not able to appreciate it? As a scientist I think you could grasp the importance easily. My children learn way more from their fiction reading than any other reading.
Some scientific articles and opinions for your reading pleasure. I like this line from one of the articles "Fiction may not be true, but it is the truth."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/novel-finding-reading-literary-fiction-improves-empathy/

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/15/book_nerds_make_better_decisions_partner/

http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/03/why-we-should-read-literature/

http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/3326870-the-importance-of-reading-fiction

http://marccortez.com/2011/05/16/6-reasons-you-should-waste-your-time-reading-fiction/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I am a scientist, so is DH. I just think that fiction being a "model" of true life is crazy, why not just use real life? One Shakespeare play per year in HS should be adequate. The rest should be about history, industry, economics, medicine, law, finances and so on. These would make excellent topics for and "English" teacher to work with.
In the old days, they knew less about these topics and we did not include them in a classical education, but times have changed. A child can learn to be a great writer by reading history books instead of Greek Mythology.

BTW, we have tons of books in our house, but no fiction.

I am always amazed, in a bad way, when educated people put down fiction. How do you feel about art? What about music? If you don't believe in literature, there is no reason you should value those either.

You're doing your kids a major disservice by not having fiction in the house. On top of being educational (in terms of information and facts as well as empathy and the human condition), reading fiction is FUN!

It is not that I don't believe that fiction has a role. I just feel that other things have an even more important role. It takes seconds to look at a painting, and if you love it, you stare at it for 10 minutes. It takes a long time to read a book, with all that work the book should at least be educational.

You have a very limited view of "educational."

Exactly.

You are a sad OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I am a scientist, so is DH. I just think that fiction being a "model" of true life is crazy, why not just use real life? One Shakespeare play per year in HS should be adequate. The rest should be about history, industry, economics, medicine, law, finances and so on. These would make excellent topics for and "English" teacher to work with.
In the old days, they knew less about these topics and we did not include them in a classical education, but times have changed. A child can learn to be a great writer by reading history books instead of Greek Mythology.

BTW, we have tons of books in our house, but no fiction.

I am always amazed, in a bad way, when educated people put down fiction. How do you feel about art? What about music? If you don't believe in literature, there is no reason you should value those either.

You're doing your kids a major disservice by not having fiction in the house. On top of being educational (in terms of information and facts as well as empathy and the human condition), reading fiction is FUN!

It is not that I don't believe that fiction has a role. I just feel that other things have an even more important role. It takes seconds to look at a painting, and if you love it, you stare at it for 10 minutes. It takes a long time to read a book, with all that work the book should at least be educational.

You have a very limited view of "educational."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I am a scientist, so is DH. I just think that fiction being a "model" of true life is crazy, why not just use real life? One Shakespeare play per year in HS should be adequate. The rest should be about history, industry, economics, medicine, law, finances and so on. These would make excellent topics for and "English" teacher to work with.
In the old days, they knew less about these topics and we did not include them in a classical education, but times have changed. A child can learn to be a great writer by reading history books instead of Greek Mythology.

BTW, we have tons of books in our house, but no fiction.

I am always amazed, in a bad way, when educated people put down fiction. How do you feel about art? What about music? If you don't believe in literature, there is no reason you should value those either.

You're doing your kids a major disservice by not having fiction in the house. On top of being educational (in terms of information and facts as well as empathy and the human condition), reading fiction is FUN!

It is not that I don't believe that fiction has a role. I just feel that other things have an even more important role. It takes seconds to look at a painting, and if you love it, you stare at it for 10 minutes. It takes a long time to read a book, with all that work the book should at least be educational.

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I am a scientist, so is DH. I just think that fiction being a "model" of true life is crazy, why not just use real life? One Shakespeare play per year in HS should be adequate. The rest should be about history, industry, economics, medicine, law, finances and so on. These would make excellent topics for and "English" teacher to work with.
In the old days, they knew less about these topics and we did not include them in a classical education, but times have changed. A child can learn to be a great writer by reading history books instead of Greek Mythology.

BTW, we have tons of books in our house, but no fiction.

No fiction? OP, you sound really boring. Creativity sparks invention:
http://gfbrobot.com/2011/11/08/ridley-scott-presents-prophets-of-science-fiction/

I guess one can be educated without being enlightened.

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I am a scientist, so is DH. I just think that fiction being a "model" of true life is crazy, why not just use real life? One Shakespeare play per year in HS should be adequate. The rest should be about history, industry, economics, medicine, law, finances and so on. These would make excellent topics for and "English" teacher to work with.
In the old days, they knew less about these topics and we did not include them in a classical education, but times have changed. A child can learn to be a great writer by reading history books instead of Greek Mythology.

BTW, we have tons of books in our house, but no fiction.

I am always amazed, in a bad way, when educated people put down fiction. How do you feel about art? What about music? If you don't believe in literature, there is no reason you should value those either.

You're doing your kids a major disservice by not having fiction in the house. On top of being educational (in terms of information and facts as well as empathy and the human condition), reading fiction is FUN!