I'd avoid my friend. I'd just tell her I notice their behaviour slipping when they've been around her dd.

Then I'd tell my kids what I said and why. This teaches them the lifelong skill of avoiding freaks and nutjobs. You can CHOOSE who to be with; people who treat you well.

To be socially pressured to hang with someone because it's mum's friend's kid is NOT a good life lesson. This puts mum's needs ahead of the kids which in this case is NOT cool.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word "hate" is not allowed in our household, and it is most certainly not permitted in reference to another person. It's really sad and unfortunate that you feel like you can say that about a child...particularly your best friend's kid. It sounds like she's a piece of work for sure but come one, OP. Clean up your language. Words are powerful.

+1

Why do I feel like your reaction to this child is extreme?

Why are there grown ups who don't understand that different words bother people differently? I use the word hate and have never understood why some people flip out about it so much. It's not a slur, offensive or even hurtful. Thus, it's an allowed word in my house.

PP, I guess you're right, but we also judge others by the words they use. If I met you and your children and you talk about "hating" this and that and other people it would factor into my perception of who you are. The words we choose to use is important in my opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word "hate" is not allowed in our household, and it is most certainly not permitted in reference to another person. It's really sad and unfortunate that you feel like you can say that about a child...particularly your best friend's kid. It sounds like she's a piece of work for sure but come one, OP. Clean up your language. Words are powerful.

+1

Why do I feel like your reaction to this child is extreme?

Why are there grown ups who don't understand that different words bother people differently? I use the word hate and have never understood why some people flip out about it so much. It's not a slur, offensive or even hurtful. Thus, it's an allowed word in my house.

+1

I hate rude behaviors.

Limit yourself to adult time or well-supervised family time for now. It sounds like she wouldn't be asking for playdates, but if so you could reply with a simple "The girls don't seem to gel very well these days. Maybe another time." It definitely seems like this little one is testing people by doing things behind her mother's back. She's still young but will quickly realize that she's the odd one out when friends start ignoring her. Ride it out - it sounds like there is potential (since mom does teach her manners) that she will come around.

I think it's a stretch to say that the word "hate" isn't hurtful. Saying you hate lima beans...ok. Saying I hate you. Pretty hurtful in just about anyone's book. "Hate crime" and "hate speech" don't really conjure up warm feelings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word "hate" is not allowed in our household, and it is most certainly not permitted in reference to another person. It's really sad and unfortunate that you feel like you can say that about a child...particularly your best friend's kid. It sounds like she's a piece of work for sure but come one, OP. Clean up your language. Words are powerful.

+1

Why do I feel like your reaction to this child is extreme?

Why are there grown ups who don't understand that different words bother people differently? I use the word hate and have never understood why some people flip out about it so much. It's not a slur, offensive or even hurtful. Thus, it's an allowed word in my house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Your kids have to deal with the fact they sometimes have to deal with a situation is not to their liking.

Or

2. You teach them the world revolves around them and dump your friend.

-1

That little girl sounds like an asshole and the mother sounds completely oblivious.

-2

I will never understand why some parents think that you and your child should be the training ground for other children's bad behavior when that child's parent ignores their behavior. A bad behaving child is often tolerable if their parent stays on top of them with correction.

The point I got from that is that your children will eventually be around other people who behave badly. The examples given don't represent any physical harm to OP's kids, and I would see it as an opporunity to teach them how to react when others misbehave. Being able to get along with a difficult person is a very useful skill.

Although in OP's place, I would be talking to the mom/my friend ASAP, along the lines of "WTF is wrong with your kid?"

It surely is. But to me there's a difference between an annoying kid at school who is irritating for a year and then you may or may not have to sit next to them and might not have class with next year and Mom's best friend's kid who the girls will presumably have to spend hours and hours and hours of their childhood with. Plus, it just bugs me when parents do not notice their children being little shits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word "hate" is not allowed in our household, and it is most certainly not permitted in reference to another person. It's really sad and unfortunate that you feel like you can say that about a child...particularly your best friend's kid. It sounds like she's a piece of work for sure but come one, OP. Clean up your language. Words are powerful.

You got a few little miserable brats running your household?

Sorry, I don't know what you're trying to say so ineffectually. I have two great boys who are kind, empathetic and polite. I'm not sure how making it clear that saying you "hate" someone is unacceptable equates to raising "miserable brats," if that's what you're trying to say. But if you regularly DO say you hate people then I could understand why you're lashing out so defensively. I hope you can work on that.

OP, bringing up your friend's child's behavior is a potential field of landmines for sure, but if I were in your shoes, one thing I MIGHT consider, if the timing was right would be to make her aware of her daughter's "behind her back" behavior. Maybe offering her your observations just to make her aware and bookend it with an invitation to HER to tell YOU if she ever observes your girls doing things behind your back. Allows you to share the info while also building the "we're on the same team" mentality.

My friends' kids have gone through ugly stages. That's what they have been -- stages that have made me think "You know, I'm not enjoying Larlo right now, bummer, last year he was so cute" or "It must be tough on Larla that Larlo is tantrumming so much." Or DH and I will laugh about Larlo blurting out something embarassing about his parents.

It would not occur to me in a million years to hate the kid, or think of shunning him or his mother/family. Who does such a thing? Furthermore, whose kids are so perfectly behaved, discipline-free, and angelic that they don't annoy other adults and families? This whole things seems so overwrought to me. The kid was mean! She snatched a toy! OMG! How could you stand to have your delicate angels around her, OP.

Get a life.

Anonymous wrote:The word "hate" is not allowed in our household, and it is most certainly not permitted in reference to another person. It's really sad and unfortunate that you feel like you can say that about a child...particularly your best friend's kid. It sounds like she's a piece of work for sure but come one, OP. Clean up your language. Words are powerful.

You got a few little miserable brats running your household?

Anonymous wrote:The word "hate" is not allowed in our household, and it is most certainly not permitted in reference to another person. It's really sad and unfortunate that you feel like you can say that about a child...particularly your best friend's kid. It sounds like she's a piece of work for sure but come one, OP. Clean up your language. Words are powerful.

+1

Why do I feel like your reaction to this child is extreme?

My own DD was also a huge pain in the ass as a little kid. She was always the one in the room acting up, running and hiding, crying, tantrumming, saying inappropriate things. But she's really turned around, is very mature and now well-regarded by teachers, coaches, other parents. She's now the one that other parents want their kids to be with, to babysit, mother's helper, pet sitter. My friends didn't judge me, they helped me. Together we all got through it.

Things do change-- you have a 25 year friendship with this woman-- friendships like those are precious. I'd give it more time. Plus, what's at the root of this girl's terrible behavior? Is it her fault? There are a lot of reasons why kids act out like that-- maybe she's just got a crappy personality but maybe there's something more there.

The word "hate" is not allowed in our household, and it is most certainly not permitted in reference to another person. It's really sad and unfortunate that you feel like you can say that about a child...particularly your best friend's kid. It sounds like she's a piece of work for sure but come one, OP. Clean up your language. Words are powerful.

I have been in similar positions and I always wonder how incredibly nice people sometimes end up with really awful progeny. It seems so off but, I have to think there is stuff going on behind closed doors that we know nothing about.

In some cases, it is that the other parent (almost always the Dad in my experience) spoils the kid terribly and models bad behvaior and never uses consequences or follows through when kid is bad. My BFF and her husband had that dynamic going with their DD when she was an only child. He worked all the time, traveled and just spoiled her in the worst ways. BFF saw some of it and tried to correct it but DD was sneaky and would act out when my BFF wasnt around. God, she could be a horror. Then when their daughter was 5, they had another baby and boy did things change after that. Dad wasnt so forgiving when his DD was horrible to the littler one. Dad's discipline started to mean something because he saw the results of his bad parenting effecting his own child, the younger one. Brought it all home and DD is a much better kid now. Her younger sibling is a dreamboat. Probably my favorite kid (other than my own) in the world.

But, when I know both the parents, and they are both kind and generous and thoughtful and nice, then its really hard to know what the heck is going on. There is a family like this at my kid's school in NWDC. The parents are honest-to-god the nicest people you could ever imagine, utterly lovely human beings. Their boys are varying degrees of nightmare - oldest a total nightmare, younger not as bad but easily could be in a few years. Its boogles the mind how these two grown ups could have produced these two boys. I shudder to think what lies ahead as they get closer to the teenage years.

9:23 here again. So it sounds like it's not always a reflection of mom or her character. I guess I never realized that parenting style could differ from a person's character but I suppose it's possible. So by avoiding the criticism of the child's behavior, you're avoiding potential for your friends offense/conflict. To me, that makes sense. To not step on things that could become land mines. Especially if you only see friend on occasion. But if the opportunity presented itself you would explain honestly and still respect integrity of friendship.

Kids teach us a lot.