Anonymous
04/20/2014 21:29
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
OP, the level of emotion you describe in your daughter on this issue is not normal--especially your follow-up post. She needs to see a therapist or psychologist ASAP. Does your DH have issues with this as well?
Anonymous
04/20/2014 21:25
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
I believe that her hoarding tendencies may require therapy. The behavior may be a symptom of something else that is troubling her. Picking up garbage is not "normal" for an 11 year old girl. OP, have you spoken to a professional about this?
Anonymous
04/20/2014 21:20
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
I think everyone who is telling OP that she should let her DD go to the event is missing the part that the girl did NOTHING in the one hour. I bet if she had made some progress, OP would have helped her with the rest and she would have been able to go.
It think you did the right thing, OP. My kids' play room was a disaster today because they had play dates on two different days this week and never got around to cleaning up the toys they got out (which was ALL the toys). So we all cleaned, and it took about an hour. The only reason it didn't take longer was because I was down there on them the whole time to CLEAN and not play. If OP's DD is anything like mine, I can see how a one hour job could easily turn into three hours.
It think you did the right thing, OP. My kids' play room was a disaster today because they had play dates on two different days this week and never got around to cleaning up the toys they got out (which was ALL the toys). So we all cleaned, and it took about an hour. The only reason it didn't take longer was because I was down there on them the whole time to CLEAN and not play. If OP's DD is anything like mine, I can see how a one hour job could easily turn into three hours.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 21:18
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Would playing upbeat music while cleaning help your daughter? That helps for our family.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 21:15
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
No, I won't back you up. Clearly your daughter needs some better habits regarding her room, and possibly has some emotional problems and a tendency to hoarding. Demanding that she immediately clean up then punishing her was not really a productive way to address these long-term problems.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 21:12
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
I think one hour is a reasonable amount of time to expect a child of that age to clean (maybe two hours..). I think an 11 year old can clean a room by herself but I think it was nice and okay of you to offer to help her. I think giving her the choice to clean on her own was the right thing to do, and you set a limit when she was unable and I think that is okay too.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 19:59
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
My dcs also like to keep a lot of things. I have bought them a few bins to put stuff in. If there is no more room for their things in the bins, then they need to choose what gets thrown out. Even my 5 yr old follows that rule.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 19:54
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would let DD go to the event. The room should not have gotten so out of control that it would take three hours to clean. A child (or even teen) could easily feel overwhelmed and not know where to begin. Next week I would make a plan to tackle the job and then for regular maintenance. For example, day 1, pick up all the dirty clothes and put in hamper. Day 2 wash and put away the clothes. Day 3 pick up all the books and put on shelf. When all is back in shape, schedule 10 minutes of pickup time per day. I would not punish a child by taking away today's event when this problem must have been building for some time.
I agree w pp! I would let her go to the event. You as the mom need to show & teach her how to clean and organize. It's not completely her fault it got this bad. Now if she did this in a day, then sure ground her but if not you really are being a mean mean mommy.
At 11 she already knows how to clean and organize because they also teach them at school. They start learning how to clean in k when they are told it's time to clean up.
But I agree that as a parent you have to make them clean their room regularly. However, having stated that, kids can make a mess within an hour. My dcs rooms can be clean, and within an hour of playing, the room is a tip. But I make them tidy it up before bedtime. If they don't, they know I'll clean it, and that usually means most things get thrown in the trash. So they will clean it. Dcs are 8 and 5. Even my 5 yr old can clean her room to the point where at least the floor is clean so I can vacuum.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 19:40
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Um....yeah, she does need a test from four months ago, potentially. She may want it to study off of. And if she did well , she wants to keep it, what's wrong with that??
Way to make her feel her academic work is undervalued.
Way to make her feel her academic work is undervalued.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 19:37
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of assumptions are bring made. A really messy room means different things to different people. I doubt the room was at hoarder-status. I'm hoping the op will come back with more details.
I'm the OP. She IS a hoarder, absolutely. She wants to keep everything. She can LITERALLY pick up garbage off the sidewalk (my rule is she is not to pick up anything other than money) and when I say "drop it or throw it out" she will immediately become frenetic and say "But I need it - it's important to me, I was going to use it for an art project!" and go on and on getting higher and higher pitched, producing fake tears, etc. She really does not need a test from four months ago.
She's got tons of shelving and containers and boxes - too much of it, IMO. Unfortunately, I am not the SAH parent or one of the ones who gets her all this stuff. She has way too much - we are not saving things to do future projects or collages. She simply has way too much stuff. DH is a huge part of the problem. We've had many talks/fights about it.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 19:26
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Nope, not backing this up. Your child sounds very over whelmed and needed direction and help, not her mother to throw a hissy fit.
OP offered to work with with her child from the very beginning but respected her DD's desire to try to do the work by herself first. OP subsequently returned to help DD but the child was being hysterical and difficult instead of buckling down to do the work with her mom's help and direction. OP informed the child that if she was going to be uncooperative OP would cease helping her. This seems reasonable to me. What part of it was OP throwing a "hissy fit"?
For all the posters saying OP is too controlling, or to let the girl keep her stuff and her room the way she sees fit, that advice seems way too permissive for this situation in my opinion.
First, there is a huge difference between a room that is full or cluttered with sentimental stuff and a room that is just a massive mess. The first may or may not be acceptable depending on the family but the second probably should never be. If the DD was overwhelmed and took over 3 hours to clean the room it sounds like it is far beyond cluttered and into the category of a huge mess.
Second, the OP has the right to set standards in her home. At 11 OP probably buys most if not all of what is in DD's room so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask DD to take care of the stuff bought for her by cleaning it up and keeping it neat.
^^^^^^^
best response!
Finally, OP's daughter is still relatively young and helping her to develop cleaning and organizing skills now will serve her well in the future.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 19:18
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:Nope, not backing this up. Your child sounds very over whelmed and needed direction and help, not her mother to throw a hissy fit.
OP offered to work with with her child from the very beginning but respected her DD's desire to try to do the work by herself first. OP subsequently returned to help DD but the child was being hysterical and difficult instead of buckling down to do the work with her mom's help and direction. OP informed the child that if she was going to be uncooperative OP would cease helping her. This seems reasonable to me. What part of it was OP throwing a "hissy fit"?
For all the posters saying OP is too controlling, or to let the girl keep her stuff and her room the way she sees fit, that advice seems way too permissive for this situation in my opinion.
First, there is a huge difference between a room that is full or cluttered with sentimental stuff and a room that is just a massive mess. The first may or may not be acceptable depending on the family but the second probably should never be. If the DD was overwhelmed and took over 3 hours to clean the room it sounds like it is far beyond cluttered and into the category of a huge mess.
Second, the OP has the right to set standards in her home. At 11 OP probably buys most if not all of what is in DD's room so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask DD to take care of the stuff bought for her by cleaning it up and keeping it neat.
Finally, OP's daughter is still relatively young and helping her to develop cleaning and organizing skills now will serve her well in the future.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 18:13
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
She is 11. More than old enough to keep her own room clean without mommy reminding her and helping her every day. I think what you did was prefect. Your expectation was that she clean her room. She didn't do anything and then cried about it. Of course she knows how to tidy up. She probably was just hoping you wouldn't follow through with your consequence or that the tears would work to make you feel guilty and let her go. A good lesson for her to learn.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 18:13
Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
I was a super-messy kid. And so sentimental I wanted to keep everything. I really needed my mom's guidance to get everything organized after a point. We went through stuff, made a list of things that would help me get organized (file boxes, folders, baskets). I purged stuff that I could bear to part with. As a reward, we went out and bought fun and cute organizational stuff and she helped me get it all together. After that point, I was on my own and my mom made it clear that it was my responsibility alone to keep it neat.
I'm still very sentimental and love keeping stuff, but I've also become a neat-freak over the years
If the room really is a disaster, come up with a plan together and help her get started. Try to avoid criticizing the things that she wants to keep - that would have made me very defensive. Be clear that she can keep things if she makes space for them in an organized way. Buy a cork board for stuff like the Hello Kitty paper. Get her file boxes for school papers, etc.
I'm still very sentimental and love keeping stuff, but I've also become a neat-freak over the years
If the room really is a disaster, come up with a plan together and help her get started. Try to avoid criticizing the things that she wants to keep - that would have made me very defensive. Be clear that she can keep things if she makes space for them in an organized way. Buy a cork board for stuff like the Hello Kitty paper. Get her file boxes for school papers, etc.
Anonymous
04/20/2014 18:09
Subject: Re:Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
My child has a hard time getting rid of things. One thing that helps her is when she's cleaning to have solid steps. She throws away all her trash (she decides what is trash). She puts away things that have a place. What's left is the stuff she has to sort through. I've suggested different ways that she handle things, such as pile things in "really want to keep" "not sure about" "might be willing to give away" piles, and start with the "most import" stuff first. She does something like that, but it's chaotic and not something I can be involved in because it stresses me out. She has baskets she can put things in while she thinks about them. This helps her, because she doesn't have to make an "immediate" decision. She's also over time gotten much better at realizing that something has been in the "might be willing to give away" bin for a month and she really is ready to give the item away.
For us, her math test would have gone into her "current years school work box" which is a box I keep of the current years school work. At the end of the year, we go through and create a binder of the things she and I want to keep. Her build-a-bear box would either be put away if it was something that had a place, or it would go in one of her piles of things to find homes for.
3 hours would be too much for my child to be able to focus on cleaning effectively, and indicates a large enough job that she'd likely have problems even getting started. My child only tends to kick me out when my priorities and hers aren't in synch (see above where I can't be part of her deciding-what-to-do-with-things). It sounds like something similar might be going on with you and your child. I would be unlikely to take away an event with a "surprise! you must clean your room!" that my child wasn't aware of. My child doesn't react well to things like that, she likes to be able to plan her own schedule (it makes her feel grown up). I would probably tell her that I hadn't realized her room had gotten to be such a disaster, and I'd like her to devote 30 minutes a day to cleaning it, until it was done. With the understanding that that thing we were going to do 2 weeks from now would be postponed if her room wasn't cleaned by then.
(Our standing rule is that the room has to be clean before she invites friends over to play. That helps, because her room doesn't get too out of control between friends coming over.)
For us, her math test would have gone into her "current years school work box" which is a box I keep of the current years school work. At the end of the year, we go through and create a binder of the things she and I want to keep. Her build-a-bear box would either be put away if it was something that had a place, or it would go in one of her piles of things to find homes for.
3 hours would be too much for my child to be able to focus on cleaning effectively, and indicates a large enough job that she'd likely have problems even getting started. My child only tends to kick me out when my priorities and hers aren't in synch (see above where I can't be part of her deciding-what-to-do-with-things). It sounds like something similar might be going on with you and your child. I would be unlikely to take away an event with a "surprise! you must clean your room!" that my child wasn't aware of. My child doesn't react well to things like that, she likes to be able to plan her own schedule (it makes her feel grown up). I would probably tell her that I hadn't realized her room had gotten to be such a disaster, and I'd like her to devote 30 minutes a day to cleaning it, until it was done. With the understanding that that thing we were going to do 2 weeks from now would be postponed if her room wasn't cleaned by then.
(Our standing rule is that the room has to be clean before she invites friends over to play. That helps, because her room doesn't get too out of control between friends coming over.)