The grip of the stupid old money white man will be unseated. Education and intelligence is the best weapon.

The word pretty much is out now about TJ not to even bother applying if you don't have straight As in very tough honors math classes. We told our DC there had to be straight As in every class. If DC had not hit that standard, not sure we would have applied - why bother when there are plenty of kids who meet that? So I suspect that some people for whom it was a reach may have not bothered any more. Still plenty of applicants and very selective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Almost all of the "10-15%" decline is due to less whites applying (not blacks, Hispanics or Asians) and that is the point. The PPs are explaining why that is probably so. Whites being lazy and not wanting to compete with smart Asians. It is interesting that only white applications have declined. Blacks have far smaller chance of being admitted than whites but still continue to apply at about the same number year after year. That should be commended. Whites on the other hand are applying in less numbers because either 1) "there are too many smart Asians at TJ so I am not gonna bother" or 2) "I don't want to apply if whites are not the dominant group in charge". Both reasons should be condemned.

Racist much? Just maybe, the family and the kid don't want him to spend 2 hours per day commuting. Maybe they realize that he can get a great education at his local school and have friends that live nearby.

I see. There was no need to commute before and this need to stay close to friends became so important only in the last 4 or 5 years with the demographics shift. Right.

Yes, commuting in this region has definitely gotten tougher over time. Plenty of families are moving closer in to shorten their commutes.

Anyway, you seem to want to turn this into a chicken vs. egg debate over racism. Whites are racist because they don't want to send their kids to schools where they won't rule the roost, the Asians are racist because they think they are superior and want to shove their own priorities down everyone else's throats, and so forth. The fact is that, where TJ is concerned, it will likely find its own equilibrium under the current admissions standards, even if the number of applicants continues to decline for a few more years.

Well, for example, loudoun did pretty recently start the Academy of Sciences. Would have to think hard if 2-hour commute to TJ is better than that.

Anonymous wrote:

Almost all of the "10-15%" decline is due to less whites applying (not blacks, Hispanics or Asians) and that is the point. The PPs are explaining why that is probably so. Whites being lazy and not wanting to compete with smart Asians. It is interesting that only white applications have declined. Blacks have far smaller chance of being admitted than whites but still continue to apply at about the same number year after year. That should be commended. Whites on the other hand are applying in less numbers because either 1) "there are too many smart Asians at TJ so I am not gonna bother" or 2) "I don't want to apply if whites are not the dominant group in charge". Both reasons should be condemned.

Racist much? Just maybe, the family and the kid don't want him to spend 2 hours per day commuting. Maybe they realize that he can get a great education at his local school and have friends that live nearby.

I see. There was no need to commute before and this need to stay close to friends became so important only in the last 4 or 5 years with the demographics shift. Right.

Anonymous wrote:

Almost all of the "10-15%" decline is due to less whites applying (not blacks, Hispanics or Asians) and that is the point. The PPs are explaining why that is probably so. Whites being lazy and not wanting to compete with smart Asians. It is interesting that only white applications have declined. Blacks have far smaller chance of being admitted than whites but still continue to apply at about the same number year after year. That should be commended. Whites on the other hand are applying in less numbers because either 1) "there are too many smart Asians at TJ so I am not gonna bother" or 2) "I don't want to apply if whites are not the dominant group in charge". Both reasons should be condemned.

Racist much? Just maybe, the family and the kid don't want him to spend 2 hours per day commuting. Maybe they realize that he can get a great education at his local school and have friends that live nearby.

Hmm! Maybe Asian families emphasize education and inculcate within their children the importance of doing well academically to enhance their future opportunities. A longer commute and not having friends who live nearby are given less priority over the need to do well academically in the most challenging environment commensurate with the child's ability and potential.

Just a whole different thought process and emphasison priorities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If applications at a college or private school declined 15% in just a few years, as has been the case at TJ, people would be asking why. There's clearly a declining demand for what TJ has to offer compared to other schools in the region.

Almost all of the "10-15%" decline is due to less whites applying (not blacks, Hispanics or Asians) and that is the point. The PPs are explaining why that is probably so. Whites being lazy and not wanting to compete with smart Asians. It is interesting that only white applications have declined. Blacks have far smaller chance of being admitted than whites but still continue to apply at about the same number year after year. That should be commended. Whites on the other hand are applying in less numbers because either 1) "there are too many smart Asians at TJ so I am not gonna bother" or 2) "I don't want to apply if whites are not the dominant group in charge". Both reasons should be condemned.

If you compare the 2012 and 2014 admissions, you'd see a 15.3% decline in applications in two years. That includes a 24.9% drop in the number of Hispanic applicants, a 24.7% drop in the number of Black applicants, a 23.8% drop in the number of White applicants, and a 5.7% drop in the number of Asian applicants.

I don't see why students should be condemned for not applying to apply to a competitive magnet school that may be far from their homes if they don't think they'll enjoy the culture at the school and their neighborhood school offers a rich menu of AP and/or IB courses. It doesn't necessarily mean they are lazy; it may simply mean they are assuming more responsibility for their own education and not allowing themselves to get pushed by their parents into something that does not interest them. It could also mean they just don't want to deal with the commute back and forth to TJ.

I sense there are some TJ parents who want the school to remain as selective as it used to be just so they can boast about how hard it is to get into. The fact is, however, that there's been a clear decline in the number of students interested in TJ in recent years. The silver lining is that there's no less competition to get into TJ for those who truly are interested in what it has to offer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admitting a student who is under-qualified for mere "demographics" results in a student who will not succeed in the program or, if enough of said students are admitted, a need to dumb down the program.

And goodness knows with remedial math classes already being offered to TJ students, we don't need to "dumb down" the program

Slightly off topic, but important to note: there are no remedial math classes at TJ. Roughly 15% of the classes that are now juniors and sophomores (haven't yet seen the numbers for the present freshman class) were required to come in for extra help in Honors Algebra II during study hall time when they were freshmen. Most 9th graders in FCPS are taking geometry, so these kids are already advanced in math, but the teachers just wanted to head off any problems right from the beginning of the year because they had been observing kids having some problems over a few years prior to putting this program into action.
No remedial classes are being offered, simply extra help during the activity period. The extra help is really no different from the after-school and weekend tutoring and extra classes used by so many students in the process of preparing for TJ and even while they are attending TJ.

Almost all of the "10-15%" decline is due to less whites applying (not blacks, Hispanics or Asians) and that is the point. The PPs are explaining why that is probably so. Whites being lazy and not wanting to compete with smart Asians. It is interesting that only white applications have declined. Blacks have far smaller chance of being admitted than whites but still continue to apply at about the same number year after year. That should be commended. Whites on the other hand are applying in less numbers because either 1) "there are too many smart Asians at TJ so I am not gonna bother" or 2) "I don't want to apply if whites are not the dominant group in charge". Both reasons should be condemned.

Racist much? Just maybe, the family and the kid don't want him to spend 2 hours per day commuting. Maybe they realize that he can get a great education at his local school and have friends that live nearby.

I wonder about the acceptance rates broken down by ethnic/gender as well. But it does seem we have moved farther towards total subjectivity than before. Supposedly a team of 4 people review each application and decide yes/no, period. No scoring of essay/SIS or teacher recommendation, so the decision can be completely subjective.

There are a lot of assumptions about the quality of Asian vs everyone else as applicants. If MIT finds 45% qualified females and only 30% of Asians qualified then why are TJ's demographics so skewed? I do believe it's an inability to consider the whole applicant and an adherence to test scores. MIT discovered many years ago that success is both emotional maturity and leadership ability as well as "intelligence" based on tests and grades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is not right for every competitive intellectually gifted student.

+1

Some competitive intellectually gifted students view life as beyond TJ and prefer to stay at their neighborhood high school. Through their neighborhood high school (and with strong AP/IB coursework, academy courses, etc.) they can have an equal (if not better) chance to be accepted to highly competitive colleges.

For many competitive intellectually gifted students, life is not all about TJ.

I think it goes beyond that a bit. Traffic is only getting worse and the commute is out of control and no one want to spend hours on a bus or in a car every day.

Even with the traffic issues, there are plenty of qualified kids who would prefer to stay at their neighborhood schools. TJ isn't for everyone.

Anonymous wrote:Admitting a student who is under-qualified for mere "demographics" results in a student who will not succeed in the program or, if enough of said students are admitted, a need to dumb down the program.

And goodness knows with remedial math classes already being offered to TJ students, we don't need to "dumb down" the program

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is not right for every competitive intellectually gifted student.

+1

Some competitive intellectually gifted students view life as beyond TJ and prefer to stay at their neighborhood high school. Through their neighborhood high school (and with strong AP/IB coursework, academy courses, etc.) they can have an equal (if not better) chance to be accepted to highly competitive colleges.

For many competitive intellectually gifted students, life is not all about TJ.

I think it goes beyond that a bit. Traffic is only getting worse and the commute is out of control and no one want to spend hours on a bus or in a car every day.

We are also on the fence re TJ or a private (which will be plenty rigorous itself, as supported by college admission patterns that look a lot like TJ's).