Anonymous
04/10/2014 09:30
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Those stats report the facts related to the Peace Corp and puts one facet of the argument to rest. On the other hand, it also says volumes about how many overall college grads have reached out to volunteer at the Peace Corp. It doesn't appear to be in great numbers.Anonymous wrote:Here are the 2014 stats for university volunteers and is enlightening.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ivy grads do not have a monopoly on community service, and many grads from non-Ivy institutions are equally magnanimous with their time and efforts.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We've always hired Ivy and non-Ivy graduates. I think some of our applicants were dismayed however, to find out that what they did while they were in school (summer jobs, internships, volunteer work) was much more important to us than the ranking of their school. Our firm is considered a very selective employer.
Interesting. As an Ivy grad twice over I'm very surprised to hear this, as most Ivy grads are highly involved in community service (one of the things that get you through the ivy door), summer internships, jobs, study abroad, etc. You will never find a group of people more engaged in the world.
And ivy grads generally have the intellect to know that those things--all the things they've been highly involved in since HS--are very important. Organizations like Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc are made up of ivy grads. Some may not like those organizations, but they are organizations that require a true commitment of time and service from its participants.
Most Ivy grads (and non-Ivy) do not beat a path to community service venues if an equitable opportunity awaits upon graduation. Presently, there are 7200 volunteers, and I highly doubt that all are Ivy folk. But I applaud your robust support of organizations whose sole purpose is the betterment of the downtrodden.
Did I say that Ivy grads have a monopoly on community service? Or even that non-Ivy grads are not equally magnanimous? I said neither. I pointed out that Ivy grads realize those things are important and are HIGHLY engaged in them. In LARGE NUMBERS.
If there are 7,200 volunteers (in which organization are you referring to?) I can assure you a GREAT NUMBER of them are Ivy educated. That means, they are not a group who are suddenly shocked to discover they're expected to do more than get a degree and go to work. In fact, many, many, MANY ivy grads do not enter the workforce directly out of college. Most do go directly into volunteer organizations while many others are 'forced'-- either by finances or the mentality--directly into employment. It's a rare ivy grad who's looking for a "real job" at 21 or 22.
http://www.peacecorps.gov/media/forpress/press/2327/
Anonymous
04/10/2014 07:04
Subject: Re:If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
This is a funny thread -- I guess an outlet for "Ivy" pride, or just a chance to say the word --which I've never heard an "ivy" grad use, including in my own household. It's a great accomplishment. But for all the kids who have been crushed by rejection in the past weeks -- it's by no means the only ticket to success nor should it be any measure of your self worth.
Also on the GPA -- an honors designation is plenty.
Also on the GPA -- an honors designation is plenty.
Anonymous
04/10/2014 05:38
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Actually, yes. There is the one and only Julliard which makes the PP's daughter's accomplishment a real achievement. Julliard turns away a ton of superior talented applicants every year.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Julliard is very difficult to get into. Kudos to your daughter!! She must be extraordinarily talented.Anonymous wrote:You imply that Ivies are the only selective schools. My kid got into Julliard though and I'm beyond thrilled for her because this has been her dream since third grade.
I couldn't care less that it's not an Ivy.
Thanks! I really love watching her dance.
I would be much prouder of a Julliard admission than an Ivy admission. Any smart kid who wants to grind it out can get into an Ivy. Julliard takes real talent, though.
Actually, no. The Ivies turn away tons of 2400 SATs and valedectorians every year. That said, Julliard (and Curtis and Pratt) are all places to be very proud of, too.
So do the Ivies--which turn away many, many more superior applicants in one year than Julliard will in 10. That said, I agree with the poster who said that all are very impressive places of which to be proud. The Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Julliard, and countless others are WONDERFUL and impressive schools. You don't have to try to dim the Ivy light to make Julliard shine. And feeling as though you must do so only reveals your real feelings about Julliard's impressiveness compared to the Ivies.
This. These - Julliard, Stanford and, yes, the Ivies - are all good schools. The Ivy envy from a few of you is pathetic and says a lot about you.
Anonymous
04/10/2014 01:08
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]We've always hired Ivy and non-Ivy graduates. I think some of our applicants were dismayed however, to find out that what they did while they were in school (summer jobs, internships, volunteer work) was much more important to us than the ranking of their school. Our firm is considered a very selective employer.[/quote]
Interesting. As an Ivy grad twice over I'm very surprised to hear this, as most Ivy grads are highly involved in community service (one of the things that get you through the ivy door), summer internships, jobs, study abroad, etc. You will never find a group of people more engaged in the world.
And ivy grads generally have the intellect to know that those things--all the things they've been highly involved in since HS--are very important. Organizations like Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc are made up of ivy grads. Some may not like those organizations, but they are organizations that require a true commitment of time and service from its participants.[/quote]Ivy grads do not have a monopoly on community service, and many grads from non-Ivy institutions are equally magnanimous with their time and efforts.
Most Ivy grads (and non-Ivy) do not beat a path to community service venues if an equitable opportunity awaits upon graduation. Presently, there are 7200 volunteers, and I highly doubt that all are Ivy folk. But I applaud your robust support of organizations whose sole purpose is the betterment of the downtrodden.[/quote]
Did I say that Ivy grads have a monopoly on community service? Or even that non-Ivy grads are not equally magnanimous? I said neither. I pointed out that Ivy grads realize those things are important and are HIGHLY engaged in them. In LARGE NUMBERS.
If there are 7,200 volunteers (in which organization are you referring to?) I can assure you a GREAT NUMBER of them are Ivy educated. That means, they are not a group who are suddenly shocked to discover they're expected to do more than get a degree and go to work. [b]In fact, many, many, MANY ivy grads do not enter the workforce directly out of college.[/b] Most do go directly into volunteer organizations while many others are 'forced'-- either by finances or the mentality--directly into employment. It's a rare ivy grad who's looking for a "real job" at 21 or 22.
[/quote]If there was this great rush in large numbers to join volunteer organizations by Ivy or anybody else, the problems that the Peace Corp and other groups encounter would be far less, and the attention to the Ivy volunteers would be much greater in media, print, and even the schools websites. Your post was very clear. If you want to backtrack for clarification, that's fine but don't try and start an argument when you yourself said organizations like the Peace Corp and Teach America are made up of Ivy grads. Your words, not mine.
I will not be a part of arguing over semantics. DCUM is wrought with petty arguments. [/quote]
I don't understand your need to quibble over such an insignificant fact. PP's post was clearly in response to the notion that ivy grads don't think they have to do more than graduate. You want to argue semantics and numbers because your argument holds no weight. It's based on your limited role for one company and ASSumptions about what you think those graduates believe. Many ivy and top school grads are doing a lot in this world, much more than making baseless assumptions.
Interesting. As an Ivy grad twice over I'm very surprised to hear this, as most Ivy grads are highly involved in community service (one of the things that get you through the ivy door), summer internships, jobs, study abroad, etc. You will never find a group of people more engaged in the world.
And ivy grads generally have the intellect to know that those things--all the things they've been highly involved in since HS--are very important. Organizations like Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc are made up of ivy grads. Some may not like those organizations, but they are organizations that require a true commitment of time and service from its participants.[/quote]Ivy grads do not have a monopoly on community service, and many grads from non-Ivy institutions are equally magnanimous with their time and efforts.
Most Ivy grads (and non-Ivy) do not beat a path to community service venues if an equitable opportunity awaits upon graduation. Presently, there are 7200 volunteers, and I highly doubt that all are Ivy folk. But I applaud your robust support of organizations whose sole purpose is the betterment of the downtrodden.[/quote]
Did I say that Ivy grads have a monopoly on community service? Or even that non-Ivy grads are not equally magnanimous? I said neither. I pointed out that Ivy grads realize those things are important and are HIGHLY engaged in them. In LARGE NUMBERS.
If there are 7,200 volunteers (in which organization are you referring to?) I can assure you a GREAT NUMBER of them are Ivy educated. That means, they are not a group who are suddenly shocked to discover they're expected to do more than get a degree and go to work. [b]In fact, many, many, MANY ivy grads do not enter the workforce directly out of college.[/b] Most do go directly into volunteer organizations while many others are 'forced'-- either by finances or the mentality--directly into employment. It's a rare ivy grad who's looking for a "real job" at 21 or 22.
[/quote]If there was this great rush in large numbers to join volunteer organizations by Ivy or anybody else, the problems that the Peace Corp and other groups encounter would be far less, and the attention to the Ivy volunteers would be much greater in media, print, and even the schools websites. Your post was very clear. If you want to backtrack for clarification, that's fine but don't try and start an argument when you yourself said organizations like the Peace Corp and Teach America are made up of Ivy grads. Your words, not mine.
I will not be a part of arguing over semantics. DCUM is wrought with petty arguments. [/quote]
I don't understand your need to quibble over such an insignificant fact. PP's post was clearly in response to the notion that ivy grads don't think they have to do more than graduate. You want to argue semantics and numbers because your argument holds no weight. It's based on your limited role for one company and ASSumptions about what you think those graduates believe. Many ivy and top school grads are doing a lot in this world, much more than making baseless assumptions.
Anonymous
04/10/2014 00:33
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Here are the 2014 stats for university volunteers and is enlightening.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ivy grads do not have a monopoly on community service, and many grads from non-Ivy institutions are equally magnanimous with their time and efforts.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We've always hired Ivy and non-Ivy graduates. I think some of our applicants were dismayed however, to find out that what they did while they were in school (summer jobs, internships, volunteer work) was much more important to us than the ranking of their school. Our firm is considered a very selective employer.
Interesting. As an Ivy grad twice over I'm very surprised to hear this, as most Ivy grads are highly involved in community service (one of the things that get you through the ivy door), summer internships, jobs, study abroad, etc. You will never find a group of people more engaged in the world.
And ivy grads generally have the intellect to know that those things--all the things they've been highly involved in since HS--are very important. Organizations like Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc are made up of ivy grads. Some may not like those organizations, but they are organizations that require a true commitment of time and service from its participants.
Most Ivy grads (and non-Ivy) do not beat a path to community service venues if an equitable opportunity awaits upon graduation. Presently, there are 7200 volunteers, and I highly doubt that all are Ivy folk. But I applaud your robust support of organizations whose sole purpose is the betterment of the downtrodden.
Did I say that Ivy grads have a monopoly on community service? Or even that non-Ivy grads are not equally magnanimous? I said neither. I pointed out that Ivy grads realize those things are important and are HIGHLY engaged in them. In LARGE NUMBERS.
If there are 7,200 volunteers (in which organization are you referring to?) I can assure you a GREAT NUMBER of them are Ivy educated. That means, they are not a group who are suddenly shocked to discover they're expected to do more than get a degree and go to work. In fact, many, many, MANY ivy grads do not enter the workforce directly out of college. Most do go directly into volunteer organizations while many others are 'forced'-- either by finances or the mentality--directly into employment. It's a rare ivy grad who's looking for a "real job" at 21 or 22.
http://www.peacecorps.gov/media/forpress/press/2327/
Anonymous
04/10/2014 00:12
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
If there was this great rush in large numbers to join volunteer organizations by Ivy or anybody else, the problems that the Peace Corp and other groups encounter would be far less, and the attention to the Ivy volunteers would be much greater in media, print, and even the schools websites. Your post was very clear. If you want to backtrack for clarification, that's fine but don't try and start an argument when you yourself said organizations like the Peace Corp and Teach America are made up of Ivy grads. Your words, not mine.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ivy grads do not have a monopoly on community service, and many grads from non-Ivy institutions are equally magnanimous with their time and efforts.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We've always hired Ivy and non-Ivy graduates. I think some of our applicants were dismayed however, to find out that what they did while they were in school (summer jobs, internships, volunteer work) was much more important to us than the ranking of their school. Our firm is considered a very selective employer.
Interesting. As an Ivy grad twice over I'm very surprised to hear this, as most Ivy grads are highly involved in community service (one of the things that get you through the ivy door), summer internships, jobs, study abroad, etc. You will never find a group of people more engaged in the world.
And ivy grads generally have the intellect to know that those things--all the things they've been highly involved in since HS--are very important. Organizations like Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc are made up of ivy grads. Some may not like those organizations, but they are organizations that require a true commitment of time and service from its participants.
Most Ivy grads (and non-Ivy) do not beat a path to community service venues if an equitable opportunity awaits upon graduation. Presently, there are 7200 volunteers, and I highly doubt that all are Ivy folk. But I applaud your robust support of organizations whose sole purpose is the betterment of the downtrodden.
Did I say that Ivy grads have a monopoly on community service? Or even that non-Ivy grads are not equally magnanimous? I said neither. I pointed out that Ivy grads realize those things are important and are HIGHLY engaged in them. In LARGE NUMBERS.
If there are 7,200 volunteers (in which organization are you referring to?) I can assure you a GREAT NUMBER of them are Ivy educated. That means, they are not a group who are suddenly shocked to discover they're expected to do more than get a degree and go to work. In fact, many, many, MANY ivy grads do not enter the workforce directly out of college. Most do go directly into volunteer organizations while many others are 'forced'-- either by finances or the mentality--directly into employment. It's a rare ivy grad who's looking for a "real job" at 21 or 22.
I will not be a part of arguing over semantics. DCUM is wrought with petty arguments.
Anonymous
04/09/2014 23:58
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Anonymous wrote:Ivy grads do not have a monopoly on community service, and many grads from non-Ivy institutions are equally magnanimous with their time and efforts.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We've always hired Ivy and non-Ivy graduates. I think some of our applicants were dismayed however, to find out that what they did while they were in school (summer jobs, internships, volunteer work) was much more important to us than the ranking of their school. Our firm is considered a very selective employer.
Interesting. As an Ivy grad twice over I'm very surprised to hear this, as most Ivy grads are highly involved in community service (one of the things that get you through the ivy door), summer internships, jobs, study abroad, etc. You will never find a group of people more engaged in the world.
And ivy grads generally have the intellect to know that those things--all the things they've been highly involved in since HS--are very important. Organizations like Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc are made up of ivy grads. Some may not like those organizations, but they are organizations that require a true commitment of time and service from its participants.
Most Ivy grads (and non-Ivy) do not beat a path to community service venues if an equitable opportunity awaits upon graduation. Presently, there are 7200 volunteers, and I highly doubt that all are Ivy folk. But I applaud your robust support of organizations whose sole purpose is the betterment of the downtrodden.
Did I say that Ivy grads have a monopoly on community service? Or even that non-Ivy grads are not equally magnanimous? I said neither. I pointed out that Ivy grads realize those things are important and are HIGHLY engaged in them. In LARGE NUMBERS.
If there are 7,200 volunteers (in which organization are you referring to?) I can assure you a GREAT NUMBER of them are Ivy educated. That means, they are not a group who are suddenly shocked to discover they're expected to do more than get a degree and go to work. In fact, many, many, MANY ivy grads do not enter the workforce directly out of college. Most do go directly into volunteer organizations while many others are 'forced'-- either by finances or the mentality--directly into employment. It's a rare ivy grad who's looking for a "real job" at 21 or 22.
Anonymous
04/09/2014 23:48
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Ivy grads do not have a monopoly on community service, and many grads from non-Ivy institutions are equally magnanimous with their time and efforts.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We've always hired Ivy and non-Ivy graduates. I think some of our applicants were dismayed however, to find out that what they did while they were in school (summer jobs, internships, volunteer work) was much more important to us than the ranking of their school. Our firm is considered a very selective employer.
Interesting. As an Ivy grad twice over I'm very surprised to hear this, as most Ivy grads are highly involved in community service (one of the things that get you through the ivy door), summer internships, jobs, study abroad, etc. You will never find a group of people more engaged in the world.
And ivy grads generally have the intellect to know that those things--all the things they've been highly involved in since HS--are very important. Organizations like Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc are made up of ivy grads. Some may not like those organizations, but they are organizations that require a true commitment of time and service from its participants.
Most Ivy grads (and non-Ivy) do not beat a path to community service venues if an equitable opportunity awaits upon graduation. Presently, there are 7200 volunteers, and I highly doubt that all are Ivy folk. But I applaud your robust support of organizations whose sole purpose is the betterment of the downtrodden.
Anonymous
04/09/2014 22:44
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Anonymous wrote:We've always hired Ivy and non-Ivy graduates. I think some of our applicants were dismayed however, to find out that what they did while they were in school (summer jobs, internships, volunteer work) was much more important to us than the ranking of their school. Our firm is considered a very selective employer.
Interesting. As an Ivy grad twice over I'm very surprised to hear this, as most Ivy grads are highly involved in community service (one of the things that get you through the ivy door), summer internships, jobs, study abroad, etc. You will never find a group of people more engaged in the world.
And ivy grads generally have the intellect to know that those things--all the things they've been highly involved in since HS--are very important. Organizations like Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc are made up of ivy grads. Some may not like those organizations, but they are organizations that require a true commitment of time and service from its participants.
Anonymous
04/09/2014 22:40
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not at all. Why? Because success is not about what school you went to. Success is about how you apply the knowledge that you have, and how persistent you are re: achieving your goals.
Too many people come out of these 'top schools' and can't communicate effectively. They don't know how to work with others. They feel that they are the sharpest nail in the box, and therefore don't have to.
A corporation is made up of lots of people. Run your own business, and you will also be dealing with lots of people. Being able to do that effectively is the key to long-term success.
Typical ivy envy nonsense that people parrot in order to make themselves feel better about the fact they didn't and never could make the Ivy cut. Most ivy and 'top school' grads are indeed effective communicators and they work extremely well with others. In fact, the majority of the ivy experience is networking (which=working with others in the real world) and communicating effectively. And top school grads actually ARE the sharpest nail in the box--the very people who get accepted into the schools in the first place.
The worst, most horrible 'leaders' I've ever worked with were state school grads. It was their lack of communication and interpersonal skills that made them such.[/quot
You're hilarious. And of course deluded. But you're probably one of those people who puts their GPA on their resume.
And you're jealous of those who attend top schools.
So I'd rather be ME putting a GPA on my resume than YOU--feeling insecure about my inferior education.
Anonymous
04/09/2014 22:00
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Not the PP but statistically the numbers that are turned away are probably equal. Julliard has a specialized program and, yes, is in a class by itself (no slam to other great artistic programs). The Ivies, etc, are impressive but there are more similar selective schools I didn't take PP's comments as a negative towards the Ivies. I would say that the only difference with the schools is the education offered, and the similarity is their selectivity.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Actually, yes. There is the one and only Julliard which makes the PP's daughter's accomplishment a real achievement. Julliard turns away a ton of superior talented applicants every year.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Julliard is very difficult to get into. Kudos to your daughter!! She must be extraordinarily talented.Anonymous wrote:You imply that Ivies are the only selective schools. My kid got into Julliard though and I'm beyond thrilled for her because this has been her dream since third grade.
I couldn't care less that it's not an Ivy.
Thanks! I really love watching her dance.
I would be much prouder of a Julliard admission than an Ivy admission. Any smart kid who wants to grind it out can get into an Ivy. Julliard takes real talent, though.
Actually, no. The Ivies turn away tons of 2400 SATs and valedectorians every year. That said, Julliard (and Curtis and Pratt) are all places to be very proud of, too.
So do the Ivies--which turn away many, many more superior applicants in one year than Julliard will in 10. That said, I agree with the poster who said that all are very impressive places of which to be proud. The Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Julliard, and countless others are WONDERFUL and impressive schools. You don't have to try to dim the Ivy light to make Julliard shine. And feeling as though you must do so only reveals your real feelings about Julliard's impressiveness compared to the Ivies.
Anonymous
04/09/2014 21:55
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not at all. Why? Because success is not about what school you went to. Success is about how you apply the knowledge that you have, and how persistent you are re: achieving your goals.
Too many people come out of these 'top schools' and can't communicate effectively. They don't know how to work with others. They feel that they are the sharpest nail in the box, and therefore don't have to.
A corporation is made up of lots of people. Run your own business, and you will also be dealing with lots of people. Being able to do that effectively is the key to long-term success.
Typical ivy envy nonsense that people parrot in order to make themselves feel better about the fact they didn't and never could make the Ivy cut. Most ivy and 'top school' grads are indeed effective communicators and they work extremely well with others. In fact, the majority of the ivy experience is networking (which=working with others in the real world) and communicating effectively. And top school grads actually ARE the sharpest nail in the box--the very people who get accepted into the schools in the first place.
The worst, most horrible 'leaders' I've ever worked with were state school grads. It was their lack of communication and interpersonal skills that made them such.[/quot
You're hilarious. And of course deluded. But you're probably one of those people who puts their GPA on their resume.
Anonymous
04/09/2014 21:45
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
We've always hired Ivy and non-Ivy graduates. I think some of our applicants were dismayed however, to find out that what they did while they were in school (summer jobs, internships, volunteer work) was much more important to us than the ranking of their school. Our firm is considered a very selective employer.
Anonymous
04/09/2014 21:36
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Anonymous wrote:Not at all. Why? Because success is not about what school you went to. Success is about how you apply the knowledge that you have, and how persistent you are re: achieving your goals.
Too many people come out of these 'top schools' and can't communicate effectively. They don't know how to work with others. They feel that they are the sharpest nail in the box, and therefore don't have to.
A corporation is made up of lots of people. Run your own business, and you will also be dealing with lots of people. Being able to do that effectively is the key to long-term success.
Typical ivy envy nonsense that people parrot in order to make themselves feel better about the fact they didn't and never could make the Ivy cut. Most ivy and 'top school' grads are indeed effective communicators and they work extremely well with others. In fact, the majority of the ivy experience is networking (which=working with others in the real world) and communicating effectively. And top school grads actually ARE the sharpest nail in the box--the very people who get accepted into the schools in the first place.
The worst, most horrible 'leaders' I've ever worked with were state school grads. It was their lack of communication and interpersonal skills that made them such.
Anonymous
04/09/2014 21:29
Subject: If your DC didn't get into selective schools are you jealous
Anonymous wrote:Actually, yes. There is the one and only Julliard which makes the PP's daughter's accomplishment a real achievement. Julliard turns away a ton of superior talented applicants every year.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Julliard is very difficult to get into. Kudos to your daughter!! She must be extraordinarily talented.Anonymous wrote:You imply that Ivies are the only selective schools. My kid got into Julliard though and I'm beyond thrilled for her because this has been her dream since third grade.
I couldn't care less that it's not an Ivy.
Thanks! I really love watching her dance.
I would be much prouder of a Julliard admission than an Ivy admission. Any smart kid who wants to grind it out can get into an Ivy. Julliard takes real talent, though.
Actually, no. The Ivies turn away tons of 2400 SATs and valedectorians every year. That said, Julliard (and Curtis and Pratt) are all places to be very proud of, too.
So do the Ivies--which turn away many, many more superior applicants in one year than Julliard will in 10. That said, I agree with the poster who said that all are very impressive places of which to be proud. The Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Julliard, and countless others are WONDERFUL and impressive schools. You don't have to try to dim the Ivy light to make Julliard shine. And feeling as though you must do so only reveals your real feelings about Julliard's impressiveness compared to the Ivies.