Anonymous
03/22/2014 21:41
Subject: All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
Anonymous wrote:Do you people not understand a Venn diagram or basic logic?
G&T kids only make up 3-5% of the student body and almost all of them will go on to college, and typically grad school and/or professional licensure, et cetera. Virtually all of them will make use of the AP/honors/enrichment classes to some degree or another, whether for subsequent college coursework, professionally, or otherwise.
Comparatively, the rest of the general school population won't. In DCPS the dropout rate is 40% who won't even finish high school. Of the remaining 60% in DCPS who do graduate, only a subset, and smaller percentage will go on to college.
But... those top 3 % do not end up in the top 3%. So......
Anonymous
03/22/2014 21:37
Subject: All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
Do you people not understand a Venn diagram or basic logic?
G&T kids only make up 3-5% of the student body and almost all of them will go on to college, and typically grad school and/or professional licensure, et cetera. Virtually all of them will make use of the AP/honors/enrichment classes to some degree or another, whether for subsequent college coursework, professionally, or otherwise.
Comparatively, the rest of the general school population won't. In DCPS the dropout rate is 40% who won't even finish high school. Of the remaining 60% in DCPS who do graduate, only a subset, and smaller percentage will go on to college.
G&T kids only make up 3-5% of the student body and almost all of them will go on to college, and typically grad school and/or professional licensure, et cetera. Virtually all of them will make use of the AP/honors/enrichment classes to some degree or another, whether for subsequent college coursework, professionally, or otherwise.
Comparatively, the rest of the general school population won't. In DCPS the dropout rate is 40% who won't even finish high school. Of the remaining 60% in DCPS who do graduate, only a subset, and smaller percentage will go on to college.
Anonymous
03/22/2014 20:35
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
Anonymous wrote:Additionally - only a tiny percentage of kids who participate in sports will ever have that be their profession - whereas a majority of kids who participate in advanced academics probably WILL go on to fields which benefit from academics.
And, the GenEd kids won"t?
A small percentage of kids that study history will be historians.
A small percentage of kids that study grammar will be editors.
A small percentage of kids that study math are mathematicians
Anonymous
03/22/2014 20:29
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
If you think every kid is college material then it is you who is clueless.
If you think every kid is a good fit for advanced academics like calculus, AP and honors coursework in high school then it is you who is clueless.
If you don't think a substantial percentage of G&T kids end up in college then it is you who is clueless.
Whatever you think it is I am clueless about is probably the politics and the magical thinking of "every kid is equal" - in which case I am not clueless, it's that I have a better grip on reality and am far less in the throes of fantasy than you.
Your problem is that you are confusing GT with good average kids. That is what the current pushy parents have created.
Anonymous
03/22/2014 20:19
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
Do you really think that all the kids who take AP and Honors classes in high school are GT? Really?
Anonymous
03/22/2014 20:18
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
GT kids are really a very small percentage.
Anonymous
03/22/2014 20:18
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
If you think every kid is college material then it is you who is clueless.
If you think every kid is a good fit for advanced academics like calculus, AP and honors coursework in high school then it is you who is clueless.
If you don't think a substantial percentage of G&T kids end up in college then it is you who is clueless.
Whatever you think it is I am clueless about is probably the politics and the magical thinking of "every kid is equal" - in which case I am not clueless, it's that I have a better grip on reality and am far less in the throes of fantasy than you.
Didn't say that. However, I am not talking about the LD kids. Most Gened kids are college material. At least, in Fairfax County.
Anonymous
03/22/2014 20:10
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
Anonymous wrote:If IQ tests are supposedly rigged and culturally biased to benefit the white establishment and high-SES, how come it's disproportionately second-generation middle class Asians getting high scores?
It's the Asian kids who are taking the prep classes.
What is your evidence for this? And what makes that suggestion anything other than "Asian kids did well in the testing therefore they must have cheated via a prep class?"
Anonymous
03/22/2014 20:07
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
Anonymous wrote:Some will, but it's much a smaller percentage. Not every general education kid is or should expected to be college material (or even advanced academics in their regular school) whereas it would be highly unusual for a G&T kid to not end up in college.
Wow. You are clueless.
If you think every kid is college material then it is you who is clueless.
If you think every kid is a good fit for advanced academics like calculus, AP and honors coursework in high school then it is you who is clueless.
If you don't think a substantial percentage of G&T kids end up in college then it is you who is clueless.
Whatever you think it is I am clueless about is probably the politics and the magical thinking of "every kid is equal" - in which case I am not clueless, it's that I have a better grip on reality and am far less in the throes of fantasy than you.
Anonymous
03/22/2014 19:32
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
If IQ tests are supposedly rigged and culturally biased to benefit the white establishment and high-SES, how come it's disproportionately second-generation middle class Asians getting high scores?
It's the Asian kids who are taking the prep classes.
Anonymous
03/22/2014 19:30
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
Some will, but it's much a smaller percentage. Not every general education kid is or should expected to be college material (or even advanced academics in their regular school) whereas it would be highly unusual for a G&T kid to not end up in college.
Wow. You are clueless.
Anonymous
03/22/2014 19:10
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
Anonymous wrote:Additionally - only a tiny percentage of kids who participate in sports will ever have that be their profession - whereas a majority of kids who participate in advanced academics probably WILL go on to fields which benefit from academics.
And, the GenEd kids won"t?
Some will, but it's much a smaller percentage. Not every general education kid is or should expected to be college material (or even advanced academics in their regular school) whereas it would be highly unusual for a G&T kid to not end up in college.
Anonymous
03/22/2014 19:07
Subject: Re:All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
Anonymous
03/22/2014 18:52
Subject: All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
If IQ tests are supposedly rigged and culturally biased to benefit the white establishment and high-SES, how come it's disproportionately second-generation middle class Asians getting high scores?
Anonymous
03/22/2014 18:51
Subject: All Kids Are Gifted, a Sports Metaphor
That is not true, Mary may be a better outside shooter and Suzie may be better under the basket. Also often the are 1 or 2 amazing players but then you need a whole team, usually 11 players. Not 11 players that play in the game, 8 play, the others are needed for practice. 3 players are usually happy to get the higher level of practice and, if they are smart, are also on a lower level of team to get playing time.
Also, those lowest 9 player that make the team.... That is tricky. It is easy to pick th top 2 players, then you can figure the next 6 players maybe 6 ... But the other 3 are no better than about 15 that got cut.
Athletic ability is easier to identify but paring it down to the best 11 not so easy. Just like getting into gifted centers or AAP or whatever. Tons of kids are good enough but don't make the cut.
Also, those lowest 9 player that make the team.... That is tricky. It is easy to pick th top 2 players, then you can figure the next 6 players maybe 6 ... But the other 3 are no better than about 15 that got cut.
Athletic ability is easier to identify but paring it down to the best 11 not so easy. Just like getting into gifted centers or AAP or whatever. Tons of kids are good enough but don't make the cut.
Anonymous wrote:I agree with modt of the sentiments in this thread. We seem able to accept that Mary is a better basketball player than Suzie and so Mary gets the lion's share of the playing time. Suzie's parents might disagree but in the athletic world it is acceptable to say one kid is better than another. It is acceptable to have kids try out for solos, or audition for select ensembles in music. Some kids are not good enough to make the highest level ensemble and that seems to be ok with most people (except maybe the kids who don't make it and their parents).
Yet-when it comes to intelligence we are branded as elitist if we say that one child is smarter than another. It makes no sense that we are willing to accept that the best athletic resources go to the best athletes and the best musical resources go the best musicians but the best academic resources do not go to the smartest kids. It makes no sense at all.
We have recreational soccer teams for anyone who wants to play. We have travel clubs for those who are better players (and have parents who want to pay). There are athletic options for all kids, but the highest resources go to develop the top kids. Why don't we do the same with education?
Don't get me wrong, all kids need an appropriate education. But the best education should go to develop the best minds. We have it backwards. We spend the most money educating the kids who are at the bottom.
I am ready to be slammed for my comments.