Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of middle class families who would be thrilled if Deal and Wilson beams lottery schools. They're called OOB families and there are many.

And when your child doesn't win the lottery? The thrill will be over.

When my kid didn't win, I homeschooled that year and won the next. It's all a matter of flexibility. My experience is only anecdotal, but it's worked out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of middle class families who would be thrilled if Deal and Wilson beams lottery schools. They're called OOB families and there are many.

And when your child doesn't win the lottery? The thrill will be over.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But apparently more moved in to replace them. And some obviously never leave. Who is are all these families who ditch public for private at K or 5th grade?

That's not true. For the most part, the people who moved in haven't used the schools. DCs population shrunk for decades, before finally making a comeback during the Williams years. And DCPS only started to show any growth at all (even then, marginal) until a couple of years ago.

Anonymous wrote:But apparently more moved in to replace them. And some obviously never leave. Who is are all these families who ditch public for private at K or 5th grade?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of middle class families who would be thrilled if Deal and Wilson beams lottery schools. They're called OOB families and there are many.

And when your child doesn't win the lottery? The thrill will be over.

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of middle class families who would be thrilled if Deal and Wilson beams lottery schools. They're called OOB families and there are many.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would contend that chance is better than no choice at all.

Just because you didn't get your choice doesn't mean that someone else didn't either.

I would argue that you are wrong and the majority of families don't like lotterying education.

I really don't think I'm all that wrong and I'd suggest you take a deeper look beyond a simplistic question of "do you like the lottery".

It's pretty clear that given the fact that nearly half of the students in DC are in charters and the fact that there are many more who still want to get into charters and many more charters being applied for with strong interest behind them quite clearly says they still want to have choice even if that means by lottery.

Yes, some are frustrated that they didn't get into their first-choice school. But for every one who didn't another one did. And getting into your second-choice school rather than your first-choice school may still be a whole lot better than if you didn't try the lottery at all. Just because some don't like lotteries doesn't mean they don't still want choice. People definitely want choice, they just want the mechanism for getting into their desired schools tweaked. But the problem is that nobody agrees on how to tweak it. If, for example, schools were given more latitude in terms of admissions (like test in) rather than lottery, that would satisfy many families, but anger many others.

Your argument misses out on the families that leave DC once they have "lost" the lottery, or who shy away from playing at all, since they have seen others fail.

The city will not improve if the middle class leaves again. Perhaps your are new to DC, but this recent growth trend in population started BEFORE the lotteries and charter schools, not because of it. Urban renewal is happening in urban areas throughout the country, and is not a direct result of school choice wooing families to stay in DC.

The "choice" you describe includes leaving the city, regardless of income level. Until DC recognizes they should actively attract a range of income levels, there is no hope to magically balance the schools out by busing or a lottery system.

Different poster - I don't understand your point about families moving out? More and more families are moving IN to DC, and the choices for schools are actually IMproving, not getting worse. Of course there are families who, if they strike out in the public lotteries, they will leave DC. But overall families are apparently deciding that DC is worth it because middle and upper class families are *staying* in DC more and more right now. The lottery is clearly frustrating to those who don't luck out with their favorite choices, but a lot of families end up really liking their 2nd and 3rd choices and they stay, and for the families who were always going to leave for private for middle school or move out of DC, well that has been going on for ages. But it's decreasing, not increasing.

This influx of families will reverse if the middle and high schools are subject to lotteries as well.

Really? Why? Or are you just talking about Deal and Wilson being subject to lottery?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would contend that chance is better than no choice at all.

Just because you didn't get your choice doesn't mean that someone else didn't either.

I would argue that you are wrong and the majority of families don't like lotterying education.

I really don't think I'm all that wrong and I'd suggest you take a deeper look beyond a simplistic question of "do you like the lottery".

It's pretty clear that given the fact that nearly half of the students in DC are in charters and the fact that there are many more who still want to get into charters and many more charters being applied for with strong interest behind them quite clearly says they still want to have choice even if that means by lottery.

Yes, some are frustrated that they didn't get into their first-choice school. But for every one who didn't another one did. And getting into your second-choice school rather than your first-choice school may still be a whole lot better than if you didn't try the lottery at all. Just because some don't like lotteries doesn't mean they don't still want choice. People definitely want choice, they just want the mechanism for getting into their desired schools tweaked. But the problem is that nobody agrees on how to tweak it. If, for example, schools were given more latitude in terms of admissions (like test in) rather than lottery, that would satisfy many families, but anger many others.

Your argument misses out on the families that leave DC once they have "lost" the lottery, or who shy away from playing at all, since they have seen others fail.

The city will not improve if the middle class leaves again. Perhaps your are new to DC, but this recent growth trend in population started BEFORE the lotteries and charter schools, not because of it. Urban renewal is happening in urban areas throughout the country, and is not a direct result of school choice wooing families to stay in DC.

The "choice" you describe includes leaving the city, regardless of income level. Until DC recognizes they should actively attract a range of income levels, there is no hope to magically balance the schools out by busing or a lottery system.

Different poster - I don't understand your point about families moving out? More and more families are moving IN to DC, and the choices for schools are actually IMproving, not getting worse. Of course there are families who, if they strike out in the public lotteries, they will leave DC. But overall families are apparently deciding that DC is worth it because middle and upper class families are *staying* in DC more and more right now. The lottery is clearly frustrating to those who don't luck out with their favorite choices, but a lot of families end up really liking their 2nd and 3rd choices and they stay, and for the families who were always going to leave for private for middle school or move out of DC, well that has been going on for ages. But it's decreasing, not increasing.

This influx of families will reverse if the middle and high schools are subject to lotteries as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would contend that chance is better than no choice at all.

Just because you didn't get your choice doesn't mean that someone else didn't either.

I would argue that you are wrong and the majority of families don't like lotterying education.

I really don't think I'm all that wrong and I'd suggest you take a deeper look beyond a simplistic question of "do you like the lottery".

It's pretty clear that given the fact that nearly half of the students in DC are in charters and the fact that there are many more who still want to get into charters and many more charters being applied for with strong interest behind them quite clearly says they still want to have choice even if that means by lottery.

Yes, some are frustrated that they didn't get into their first-choice school. But for every one who didn't another one did. And getting into your second-choice school rather than your first-choice school may still be a whole lot better than if you didn't try the lottery at all. Just because some don't like lotteries doesn't mean they don't still want choice. People definitely want choice, they just want the mechanism for getting into their desired schools tweaked. But the problem is that nobody agrees on how to tweak it. If, for example, schools were given more latitude in terms of admissions (like test in) rather than lottery, that would satisfy many families, but anger many others.

Your argument misses out on the families that leave DC once they have "lost" the lottery, or who shy away from playing at all, since they have seen others fail.

The city will not improve if the middle class leaves again. Perhaps your are new to DC, but this recent growth trend in population started BEFORE the lotteries and charter schools, not because of it. Urban renewal is happening in urban areas throughout the country, and is not a direct result of school choice wooing families to stay in DC.

The "choice" you describe includes leaving the city, regardless of income level. Until DC recognizes they should actively attract a range of income levels, there is no hope to magically balance the schools out by busing or a lottery system.

Different poster - I don't understand your point about families moving out? More and more families are moving IN to DC, and the choices for schools are actually IMproving, not getting worse. Of course there are families who, if they strike out in the public lotteries, they will leave DC. But overall families are apparently deciding that DC is worth it because middle and upper class families are *staying* in DC more and more right now. The lottery is clearly frustrating to those who don't luck out with their favorite choices, but a lot of families end up really liking their 2nd and 3rd choices and they stay, and for the families who were always going to leave for private for middle school or move out of DC, well that has been going on for ages. But it's decreasing, not increasing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would contend that chance is better than no choice at all.

Just because you didn't get your choice doesn't mean that someone else didn't either.

I would argue that you are wrong and the majority of families don't like lotterying education.

I really don't think I'm all that wrong and I'd suggest you take a deeper look beyond a simplistic question of "do you like the lottery".

It's pretty clear that given the fact that nearly half of the students in DC are in charters and the fact that there are many more who still want to get into charters and many more charters being applied for with strong interest behind them quite clearly says they still want to have choice even if that means by lottery.

Yes, some are frustrated that they didn't get into their first-choice school. But for every one who didn't another one did. And getting into your second-choice school rather than your first-choice school may still be a whole lot better than if you didn't try the lottery at all. Just because some don't like lotteries doesn't mean they don't still want choice. People definitely want choice, they just want the mechanism for getting into their desired schools tweaked. But the problem is that nobody agrees on how to tweak it. If, for example, schools were given more latitude in terms of admissions (like test in) rather than lottery, that would satisfy many families, but anger many others.

Your argument misses out on the families that leave DC once they have "lost" the lottery, or who shy away from playing at all, since they have seen others fail.

The city will not improve if the middle class leaves again. Perhaps your are new to DC, but this recent growth trend in population started BEFORE the lotteries and charter schools, not because of it. Urban renewal is happening in urban areas throughout the country, and is not a direct result of school choice wooing families to stay in DC.

The "choice" you describe includes leaving the city, regardless of income level. Until DC recognizes they should actively attract a range of income levels, there is no hope to magically balance the schools out by busing or a lottery system.

Move out of DC is a choice of last resort and I'd point out that there are many choices besides that - for example that charters are what's helping to keep many families in DC. Many of the families currently in charters would have otherwise also left for the burbs or exercised other options if they hadn't gotten into charters. Also, as for the range of income levels, that's driven by available jobs. DC has far more jobs for policy wonks than it does riveting together widgets on an assembly line. Your argument about no choice or not taking things into consideration seems to be about as fallacious as the Yogi Berra "nobody goes there anymore because it got to be too popular" type of argument. You act like nobody ever gets in and everyone hates the lottery yet the fact is that over 35,000 students DID get in.

Many, if not most, of those 35,000 would rather go to a school near their home that was good if that option was available to them. I guarantee it, experiential learning and all.

I really don't think you are from here. You don't seem to understand that the population of DC doubles during the day with commuters. My point is, if we can convince more people to stay INSIDE the city, then all schools would be better. Then more people would see it as an option to stay. You are sort of saying, screw the people who are not tough enough to stay in the city, I am saying, let's make things better so that more people choose to stay in the city. San Francisco has few children, is that what you want DC to be like? Push out the middle class?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would contend that chance is better than no choice at all.

Just because you didn't get your choice doesn't mean that someone else didn't either.

I would argue that you are wrong and the majority of families don't like lotterying education.

I really don't think I'm all that wrong and I'd suggest you take a deeper look beyond a simplistic question of "do you like the lottery".

It's pretty clear that given the fact that nearly half of the students in DC are in charters and the fact that there are many more who still want to get into charters and many more charters being applied for with strong interest behind them quite clearly says they still want to have choice even if that means by lottery.

Yes, some are frustrated that they didn't get into their first-choice school. But for every one who didn't another one did. And getting into your second-choice school rather than your first-choice school may still be a whole lot better than if you didn't try the lottery at all. Just because some don't like lotteries doesn't mean they don't still want choice. People definitely want choice, they just want the mechanism for getting into their desired schools tweaked. But the problem is that nobody agrees on how to tweak it. If, for example, schools were given more latitude in terms of admissions (like test in) rather than lottery, that would satisfy many families, but anger many others.

Your argument misses out on the families that leave DC once they have "lost" the lottery, or who shy away from playing at all, since they have seen others fail.

The city will not improve if the middle class leaves again. Perhaps your are new to DC, but this recent growth trend in population started BEFORE the lotteries and charter schools, not because of it. Urban renewal is happening in urban areas throughout the country, and is not a direct result of school choice wooing families to stay in DC.

The "choice" you describe includes leaving the city, regardless of income level. Until DC recognizes they should actively attract a range of income levels, there is no hope to magically balance the schools out by busing or a lottery system.