Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or, it could be that going to a school where the majority of the kids are not well prepared is a problem for many families regardless of the race of the kids and it is not in fact code.

Exactly!! I earnestly think this is true. People calling the race card need to rethink this.

Here in the realm of hypothetical, let's say that my family lives at the eastern edge of the park. We're two professional parents, two grad gegrees, with HHI at $265K. We don't yet know the capacity of our 4 year old but he's certainly doing more than I did at his age; all the indicators, and certainly our expectations, point to academic success. We think diversity helps build character that leads to that success and think it can be found along with academic rigor--at least, that's what we're seeking. We'd LOVE to be able to walk to his school, but like every other committed, involved and researching parent on this forum we're condidering all options.

We're attracted to Hearst for PK because it seems to have all the elements we want, along with a principal who "has a vision." With the boundary discussions hinting that Hearst would feed into Hardy, I'm naturally curious about what's going on there.

I'll withhold my race, since so many say its irrelevant, but if the "vision" is pretty much about eliminating OOB kids (supported by DCPS and a Council member!) and that's what the IB community wants as well, I'm thinking my kid would not be welcome. Along with all the other emotional upheaval that happens in the middle school years, maybe the stigma of our OOB address would create behavioral problems that would detract from whatever quality the school offers eight years from now.

Is there some way I should rethink this?

Who exactly is saying this? Eaton is closer to Hardy than Hearst is. Eaton is closer to Hardy than it is to Deal. Hearst isn't though, Hearst really is closer to Deal.

I don't think anyone is. Hardy sounds like it is in the upswing, so maybe it would be fine either way, but Eaton and Oyster are closer to Hardy then Hearst.

Anonymous wrote:I haven't manufactured anything. The entire thread is premised on eliminating OOB students from the school.

I went back and skimmed again but, nope, no other factors were considered for its trajectory.

Uh, yeah, because the out of boundary students at Hardy (or anywhere WOTP, for that matter), as a general reality, don't perform as well in terms of academic proficiency. So, if you want the overall proficiency of the population to increase over time, then as a matter of policy reducing the number of out of boundary attendees would accomplish that goal.

OP here: I would like a middle school option where my kiddos fit in socio-economically & academically. It's annoying and insulting to minorities that, in this city, that is always conflated with race and that people are so quick to scream "racist".

I couldn't care less about the color of my child's classmates. I would, however, like for there to be a "neighborhood" school where my DC could have a social circle within walking/biking distance of home. And I don't want my DC to be a socio-economic anomaly/outcast. Stop with the race nonsense! I don't think anyone here cares one whit about race!!

I haven't manufactured anything. The entire thread is premised on eliminating OOB students from the school.

I went back and skimmed again but, nope, no other factors were considered for its trajectory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or, it could be that going to a school where the majority of the kids are not well prepared is a problem for many families regardless of the race of the kids and it is not in fact code.

Exactly!! I earnestly think this is true. People calling the race card need to rethink this.

Here in the realm of hypothetical, let's say that my family lives at the eastern edge of the park. We're two professional parents, two grad gegrees, with HHI at $265K. We don't yet know the capacity of our 4 year old but he's certainly doing more than I did at his age; all the indicators, and certainly our expectations, point to academic success. We think diversity helps build character that leads to that success and think it can be found along with academic rigor--at least, that's what we're seeking. We'd LOVE to be able to walk to his school, but like every other committed, involved and researching parent on this forum we're condidering all options.

We're attracted to Hearst for PK because it seems to have all the elements we want, along with a principal who "has a vision." With the boundary discussions hinting that Hearst would feed into Hardy, I'm naturally curious about what's going on there.

I'll withhold my race, since so many say its irrelevant, but if the "vision" is pretty much about eliminating OOB kids (supported by DCPS and a Council member!) and that's what the IB community wants as well, I'm thinking my kid would not be welcome. Along with all the other emotional upheaval that happens in the middle school years, maybe the stigma of our OOB address would create behavioral problems that would detract from whatever quality the school offers eight years from now.

Is there some way I should rethink this?

Who exactly is saying this? Eaton is closer to Hardy than Hearst is. Eaton is closer to Hardy than it is to Deal. Hearst isn't though, Hearst really is closer to Deal.

Anonymous wrote:And I'm not denigrating you for thinking Hardy is not good enough, I'm denigrating you for denigrating current and future students based on nothing more than where they live.

Again, not the PP you're addressing.

I don't view it as "denigrating" students based on where they live. I'm assessing a trend. I'm doing the same thing that any statistician would do when assessing the likely trend in a given general population. It's the same thing a political pollster, for example, does when trying to gauge likely outcomes to political races in a given subgroup. So don't be mad at science. If you feel that you or your child, in particular, are being denigrated by what the statistics say should be a general expectation of performance, then you are manufacturing a bigoted intent that simply isn't present.

And I'm not denigrating you for thinking Hardy is not good enough, I'm denigrating you for denigrating current and future students based on nothing more than where they live.

Again, not the PP you're addressing.

For sake of illustration, when I was a kid, I attended a middle school with general test scores like Hardy. It was fine; I enjoyed the school and my friends. I was an advanced student compared to maybe 85% of everyone else. I got all A's really easily. But, when I went to high school, where the overall scores were much higher in comparison to middle school, for the first time in my life I was pushed, academically. Instead of easily capturing all A's, I received more B+'s and a few B's. I went to a decent college, but when I got there and compared myself to others, I realized (granted, this is subjective) that I could have been better prepared if I had been pushed my entire career. THAT (and I'm going to answer my original query for you) is what I believe many in-boundary parents are "fearful" of. And I don't think that's in any way irrational. At the same time, I believe Hardy would be just fine for most parents and their kids. But, if you accept what I'm saying, I don't think you or anyone else should denigrate parents who decide that Hardy just isn't good enough for their kids.

So maybe you're thinking that if you'd been better prepared, you would have known beforehand that your "decent college", for which you were inadequately prepared, wasn't good enough to get you a salary that would allow your progeny to avoid public school altogether???

Maybe you're just a B student. Maybe your child is too. Would being at that B range just be more acceptable at Deal (where he or she would presumably be ...OOB)???

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again, in-boundary parents trying to rationalize their irrational fear of OOB kids.

If you want your kids to go to their neighborhood school, just send them and get involved with the school. Your kid's test scores will be just fine. They will learn a lot in class and also benefit from being friends with kids from other parts of the city. Really.

If not, don't send them but please stop making up all kinds of ridiculous reasons. Just admit that you want your kids to go to a school with kids who look like them. Plenty of options around the city for you.

OOB kids are just that, kids. Their families obviously care about their education.They are goofy middle school aged children. If you go to an open house or go to an event and actually talk to the kids and their families, you will see that there is nothing to fear, but lots to gain.

DCPS has been bending over backwards to placate this vocal in-boundary parent group. Enough already.

Please allow me to request clarification of your position, then: In 2013, math proficiency scores for Hardy were 67%. Are you saying that there is no PRACTICAL distinction, for purposes of understanding the educational environment at Hardy, between 67% and, say, 88% proficiency in Middle School Math?

Because I think a lot of parents DO see an important distinction between proficiency scores like that. Based upon your prior comments, I would infer you believe that parents having that opinion are, in your mind, "irrational" or "fearful" of, I don't know, something? Please tell me, what exactly is irrational or fearful about seeing an important distinction between those two data points?

Thanks.

I'm not the PP you're addressing, but i note that 16% are performing at advanced level for math at Hardy. So...that happens.

If your child is at that level, then s/he can perform at that level. At either school.

Exactly. That happens now. The notion that there are so many unprepared kids at Hardy that the prepared kids cannot learn is absurd. I know this firsthand - my Hardy student is prepared to learn and excel, and he is in fact learning and excelling.

If a school has a 67% profiency in math and school B has an 88% proficiency, that doesn't meant that my child - call him Ralph - will have different chances of success at each school. It's not as if Ralph has a 67% chance of being proficient at school A and an 88% chance at being proficient at school B. Ralph is smart. Ralph has educated parents that care and work hard to make sure he has what he needs to succeed. Ralph will do fine at School A or School B.

Thanks for the clarification -- though you still haven't specifically clarified what you believe some parents are irrational or fearful of.

For sake of illustration, when I was a kid, I attended a middle school with general test scores like Hardy. It was fine; I enjoyed the school and my friends. I was an advanced student compared to maybe 85% of everyone else. I got all A's really easily. But, when I went to high school, where the overall scores were much higher in comparison to middle school, for the first time in my life I was pushed, academically. Instead of easily capturing all A's, I received more B+'s and a few B's. I went to a decent college, but when I got there and compared myself to others, I realized (granted, this is subjective) that I could have been better prepared if I had been pushed my entire career. THAT (and I'm going to answer my original query for you) is what I believe many in-boundary parents are "fearful" of. And I don't think that's in any way irrational. At the same time, I believe Hardy would be just fine for most parents and their kids. But, if you accept what I'm saying, I don't think you or anyone else should denigrate parents who decide that Hardy just isn't good enough for their kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again, in-boundary parents trying to rationalize their irrational fear of OOB kids.

If you want your kids to go to their neighborhood school, just send them and get involved with the school. Your kid's test scores will be just fine. They will learn a lot in class and also benefit from being friends with kids from other parts of the city. Really.

If not, don't send them but please stop making up all kinds of ridiculous reasons. Just admit that you want your kids to go to a school with kids who look like them. Plenty of options around the city for you.

OOB kids are just that, kids. Their families obviously care about their education.They are goofy middle school aged children. If you go to an open house or go to an event and actually talk to the kids and their families, you will see that there is nothing to fear, but lots to gain.

DCPS has been bending over backwards to placate this vocal in-boundary parent group. Enough already.

Please allow me to request clarification of your position, then: In 2013, math proficiency scores for Hardy were 67%. Are you saying that there is no PRACTICAL distinction, for purposes of understanding the educational environment at Hardy, between 67% and, say, 88% proficiency in Middle School Math?

Because I think a lot of parents DO see an important distinction between proficiency scores like that. Based upon your prior comments, I would infer you believe that parents having that opinion are, in your mind, "irrational" or "fearful" of, I don't know, something? Please tell me, what exactly is irrational or fearful about seeing an important distinction between those two data points?

Thanks.

I'm not the PP you're addressing, but i note that 16% are performing at advanced level for math at Hardy. So...that happens.

If your child is at that level, then s/he can perform at that level. At either school.

Exactly. That happens now. The notion that there are so many unprepared kids at Hardy that the prepared kids cannot learn is absurd. I know this firsthand - my Hardy student is prepared to learn and excel, and he is in fact learning and excelling.

If a school has a 67% profiency in math and school B has an 88% proficiency, that doesn't meant that my child - call him Ralph - will have different chances of success at each school. It's not as if Ralph has a 67% chance of being proficient at school A and an 88% chance at being proficient at school B. Ralph is smart. Ralph has educated parents that care and work hard to make sure he has what he needs to succeed. Ralph will do fine at School A or School B.

I want Hardy to succeed. We are not IB, but if it is a good option in 2 years I would consider entering the OOB lottery for my JKLMM attending child that is currently entitled to go to Deal by right. It is smaller and it has the SEM program and a music focus, all things that would be a great fit for my child if well executed.

Just to change the tone of this discussion a little, I want to add that parents with currently good options would love to consider Hardy a real alternative to Deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again, in-boundary parents trying to rationalize their irrational fear of OOB kids.

If you want your kids to go to their neighborhood school, just send them and get involved with the school. Your kid's test scores will be just fine. They will learn a lot in class and also benefit from being friends with kids from other parts of the city. Really.

If not, don't send them but please stop making up all kinds of ridiculous reasons. Just admit that you want your kids to go to a school with kids who look like them. Plenty of options around the city for you.

OOB kids are just that, kids. Their families obviously care about their education.They are goofy middle school aged children. If you go to an open house or go to an event and actually talk to the kids and their families, you will see that there is nothing to fear, but lots to gain.

DCPS has been bending over backwards to placate this vocal in-boundary parent group. Enough already.

Please allow me to request clarification of your position, then: In 2013, math proficiency scores for Hardy were 67%. Are you saying that there is no PRACTICAL distinction, for purposes of understanding the educational environment at Hardy, between 67% and, say, 88% proficiency in Middle School Math?

Because I think a lot of parents DO see an important distinction between proficiency scores like that. Based upon your prior comments, I would infer you believe that parents having that opinion are, in your mind, "irrational" or "fearful" of, I don't know, something? Please tell me, what exactly is irrational or fearful about seeing an important distinction between those two data points?

Thanks.

I'm not the PP you're addressing, but i note that 16% are performing at advanced level for math at Hardy. So...that happens.

If your child is at that level, then s/he can perform at that level. At either school.

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again, in-boundary parents trying to rationalize their irrational fear of OOB kids.

If you want your kids to go to their neighborhood school, just send them and get involved with the school. Your kid's test scores will be just fine. They will learn a lot in class and also benefit from being friends with kids from other parts of the city. Really.

If not, don't send them but please stop making up all kinds of ridiculous reasons. Just admit that you want your kids to go to a school with kids who look like them. Plenty of options around the city for you.

OOB kids are just that, kids. Their families obviously care about their education.They are goofy middle school aged children. If you go to an open house or go to an event and actually talk to the kids and their families, you will see that there is nothing to fear, but lots to gain.

DCPS has been bending over backwards to placate this vocal in-boundary parent group. Enough already.

Please allow me to request clarification of your position, then: In 2013, math proficiency scores for Hardy were 67%. Are you saying that there is no PRACTICAL distinction, for purposes of understanding the educational environment at Hardy, between 67% and, say, 88% proficiency in Middle School Math?

Because I think a lot of parents DO see an important distinction between proficiency scores like that. Based upon your prior comments, I would infer you believe that parents having that opinion are, in your mind, "irrational" or "fearful" of, I don't know, something? Please tell me, what exactly is irrational or fearful about seeing an important distinction between those two data points?

Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again, in-boundary parents trying to rationalize their irrational fear of OOB kids.

If you want your kids to go to their neighborhood school, just send them and get involved with the school. Your kid's test scores will be just fine. They will learn a lot in class and also benefit from being friends with kids from other parts of the city. Really.

If not, don't send them but please stop making up all kinds of ridiculous reasons. Just admit that you want your kids to go to a school with kids who look like them. Plenty of options around the city for you.

OOB kids are just that, kids. Their families obviously care about their education.They are goofy middle school aged children. If you go to an open house or go to an event and actually talk to the kids and their families, you will see that there is nothing to fear, but lots to gain.

DCPS has been bending over backwards to placate this vocal in-boundary parent group. Enough already.

PREACH!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or, it could be that going to a school where the majority of the kids are not well prepared is a problem for many families regardless of the race of the kids and it is not in fact code.

Exactly!! I earnestly think this is true. People calling the race card need to rethink this.

Here in the realm of hypothetical, let's say that my family lives at the eastern edge of the park. We're two professional parents, two grad gegrees, with HHI at $265K. We don't yet know the capacity of our 4 year old but he's certainly doing more than I did at his age; all the indicators, and certainly our expectations, point to academic success. We think diversity helps build character that leads to that success and think it can be found along with academic rigor--at least, that's what we're seeking. We'd LOVE to be able to walk to his school, but like every other committed, involved and researching parent on this forum we're condidering all options.

We're attracted to Hearst for PK because it seems to have all the elements we want, along with a principal who "has a vision." With the boundary discussions hinting that Hearst would feed into Hardy, I'm naturally curious about what's going on there.

I'll withhold my race, since so many say its irrelevant, but if the "vision" is pretty much about eliminating OOB kids (supported by DCPS and a Council member!) and that's what the IB community wants as well, I'm thinking my kid would not be welcome. Along with all the other emotional upheaval that happens in the middle school years, maybe the stigma of our OOB address would create behavioral problems that would detract from whatever quality the school offers eight years from now.

Is there some way I should rethink this?