Anonymous wrote:In the PPs scenario of a lying student, having already had the formal instruction means that the student will understand when the teacher asks "Were you showing trustworthiness? What would a better choice have been?" Or in the PP's case of one student being mean to another, the teacher can point to the school rule of fairness, caring, or citizenship and explain to the student why she was wrong and what she should have done. If you haven't already set out the expectations so everyone understands, how can you intervene when one is broken?

The reason you don't need a formal lesson is that to the extent ethics and values really are univeral, they are also innate, intuitive, and being reinforced at home and through experience. A teacher doesn't need to give a formal lesson on the ills of lying before calling a child (of a reasonable age) out on a lie, because the child already knows lying is wrong and won't feel he or she didn't have fair warning that lying was inappropriate. Meanwhile, to the extent thics rules are not really universal, I don't want my kid's school to decide how they are taught.

I think especially at the elementary level, "ethics" should just naturally be taught as a part of school procedures and culture.

Things like the 6 pillars of character, which is what I was taught in public elementary - Trustworthiness, Respect, Responsibility, Fairness, Caring, Citizenship. We were taught about what each of these meant and that at our school we were required to act with these qualities in mind. At the elementary level, I find this perfectly reasonable and sensible - and without at least a bit of "formal instruction" how are the kids to know what is expected of them? Without at least a basic framework of ethical expectations, I don't see how kids can work safely and productively with each other or how the school can function.

I don't mean ethics in the context of what different religious communities believe, but I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the above traits are pretty universal and essential for any group (including a class, a grade or a school) to function.

In the PPs scenario of a lying student, having already had the formal instruction means that the student will understand when the teacher asks "Were you showing trustworthiness? What would a better choice have been?" Or in the PP's case of one student being mean to another, the teacher can point to the school rule of fairness, caring, or citizenship and explain to the student why she was wrong and what she should have done. If you haven't already set out the expectations so everyone understands, how can you intervene when one is broken?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I think it should be taught by the parents too. I don't mind the school teaching basics but that is my job. I know people how are very religious and studied it in school and still have no ethics.

You think "don't cheat" should be taught at school or enforced, you don't think kids should be required to be kind to one another, or help somebody with a broken leg carry their books.

Wow!

I'm not that PP, but a teacher intervening when a student is lying to her or abusing a classmate is an entirely different thing than formal ethics instruction.

Anonymous wrote:No, I think it should be taught by the parents too. I don't mind the school teaching basics but that is my job. I know people how are very religious and studied it in school and still have no ethics.

You think "don't cheat" should be taught at school or enforced, you don't think kids should be required to be kind to one another, or help somebody with a broken leg carry their books.

Wow!

No, I think it should be taught by the parents too. I don't mind the school teaching basics but that is my job. I know people how are very religious and studied it in school and still have no ethics.

I was in a public school because my son practices basket ball there and there were all kinds of projects that involved "ethics". There were pictures on the wall of older kids helping younger kids with the words... "Give back"

There were pictures of kids holding a sign with a message "be kind", "help others", etc.