Anonymous
01/07/2014 17:53
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Anonymous wrote:Can we rename this thread "religious families - how to brainwash children"?
I hope the excellent examples of brainwashing here have had some effect on the loving parents (I mean that sincerely) who are going to such pains to immerse their children in Christianity.
It acually sickens me to know that this is still happening. In the middle ages, people were burned at the stake for being heretics. That's over, thankfully. But now, educated parents are indoctrinating their children all week long, in school, in church, even when playing sports! How insufferable that must be for kids who are not inclined to believe in the supernatural. And kids who are inclined toward religious belief don't need the constant reminders.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 17:40
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
I with you, 17:15 and 17:54.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 17:24
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can we rename this thread "religious families - how to brainwash children"?
This isn't brainwashing, or indoctrinating. It's gently bringing up the idea of a loving being who wants you to be happy. There's nothing wrong with doing this at a young age, and my question originally was: Do really young children embrace the concept of God?
I'm assuming you're the same person who made the communist comparison. Communism and faith couldn't me more far apart. Communist regimes have state sponsored atheism.
Just because they are opposite of the spectrum philosophically doesn't mean the method of molding and shaping young kids minds to be more receptive to accept rather than question. At least it absolutely was in my background (fundamentalist church, home-schooled, lots of pressure to continue on to an approved christian college).
Live out the joy and peace your faith provides you and it hopefully be enough to spark the curiosity of your kids if they are inclined. But accept they may not and don't force it.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 17:15
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can we rename this thread "religious families - how to brainwash children"?
This isn't brainwashing, or indoctrinating. It's gently bringing up the idea of a loving being who wants you to be happy. There's nothing wrong with doing this at a young age, and my question originally was: Do really young children embrace the concept of God?
I'm assuming you're the same person who made the communist comparison. Communism and faith couldn't me more far apart. Communist regimes have state sponsored atheism.
No, the first person to ask the brainwashing question wasn't the one who made the communism comparison.
When I quote those posters I specifically said that there was a difference and I was just using communism as an alternate to show how creepy some poster's language was.
Some of the posters talked about exactly what you mean, and I quoted one of them, too.
Others, however, talked about the need for reinforcing belief on a 24/7 basis, making sure that at least 5 other adults are reinforcing what you tell your kids about belief, etc., and my point was that [b]does[/d] sound like creepy indoctrination.
Kids believe in Santa Claus without a lot of effort, but for some reason some parents feel like they have to force feed religion to their children and make sure that their particular religious preferences are constantly reinforced so that their children never have a chance to think there might be an alternative.
If you object to that description, then look back at what these parents are writing "for their children's own good."
I respect the parents who educate their children and allow their children to make choices. Parents who have to force their children to think and believe a certain way I have less respect for.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 17:06
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Stop with the stupid analogies.
So that's one vote for "Your analogy bothered me because it hit so close to the mark."
Thanks!
Anonymous
01/07/2014 16:32
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can we rename this thread "religious families - how to brainwash children"?
Don't be obnoxious.
There is an element of that in a lot of these posts. If you take out the religious context that "everyone" accepts as appropriate, and replace the religious elements with communist elements, we have:
Thread Title: Do your children easily love [the Party]?
It was an every day, 24-7 sort of thing, not some boring thing that we attended for one hour every week, under duress. Also, in school, they weave all the [Party] lessons into everything, so again, it's not set aside as one boring hour a week when you have to go to [Party Class] with kids you do not even know, who do not go to your regular school.
Or:
My children attend a [Party] program called [insert name]. The classroom setting is called the Atrium, so many people refer to it as that. My children have developed a relationship with [Dear Leader] at a very young age. it's much more personal than the classroom [Party] ed programs.
Or:
Our [Local Party Chapter] is focused on the idea that to develop and sustain faith, you need roughly five adults (who are not you) pouring into & interacting with your child on a regular basis. I think the concept comes from a series of books called Orange & Parenting Beyond Your Capacity. This could be [Party Education] teachers, scout leaders, your own friends, a [Party] youth [representative], other adult volunteers with youth [Party], sports coaches who model good values, etc. Our [Party] youth [representative] also really emphasizes how much time children spend with parents vs. the [Party] - we can't expect our [Party] to do all of this spiritual development. Even if you're there for three events/week (unlikely for most families), that's only six hours out of the many more that parents spend with their kids. So talking about faith & modeling it at home is the first step, and then finding a community that will support and your sustain your efforts is the next most important thing.
I have a young child at this point, so it's easier talking about [Communism] with her at this stage of life. It permeates our home life...
Or:
I want my children to love [Dear Leader]. I want them to be faithful [Party] boys and faithful [Party] men one day. I want this because I have very sincere beliefs that cause me to know that a strong faith has enriched my life in countless ways. I want them to be similarly enriched. So you may think it is weird that I want my kids to love [Dear Leader], but that is just a normal thing for people who truly believe. We want to share that belief. That belief brings us joy that we would never want to keep to ourselves.
I'm not doing this to be obnoxious, and I do honestly think there's a difference between believing in God and being a devout Party member. Despite my saying that, I know that there are some people who are going to be insulted by the implicit comparison. I'm simply putting these words in a different belief context to show how they look when the authors aren't talking about religion, and they do have a significant element of indoctrination to them.
Now compare that to -
I would like for my kids to love and find comfort in [the Party], but know I do not control this - that I can only expose/introduce them to [Communism] in various ways. In raising them as I have ... my hope is that they develop enough of a "faith muscle" to enable them to seek out [the Party] on their own when they want or need that. I know from personal experience that faith waxes and wanes, but OTOH for me, the comfort of the liturgy, especially during difficult times, does not. I hope I have given them enough of a foundation that they seek this out for themselves as adults.
Stop with the stupid analogies.
That's respecting your kids, teaching them, and allowing them to make their own choices.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 16:31
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Anonymous wrote:Can we rename this thread "religious families - how to brainwash children"?
This isn't brainwashing, or indoctrinating. It's gently bringing up the idea of a loving being who wants you to be happy. There's nothing wrong with doing this at a young age, and my question originally was: Do really young children embrace the concept of God?
I'm assuming you're the same person who made the communist comparison. Communism and faith couldn't me more far apart. Communist regimes have state sponsored atheism.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 15:22
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
As a follow-up, from the indoctrinated flip side:
"He gazed up at the enormous [crucifix]. Forty years it had taken him to learn ... . O cruel, needless misunderstanding ! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast ! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved [Jesus]."
"He gazed up at the enormous [crucifix]. Forty years it had taken him to learn ... . O cruel, needless misunderstanding ! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast ! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved [Jesus]."
Anonymous
01/07/2014 14:28
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can we rename this thread "religious families - how to brainwash children"?
Don't be obnoxious.
There is an element of that in a lot of these posts. If you take out the religious context that "everyone" accepts as appropriate, and replace the religious elements with communist elements, we have:
Thread Title: Do your children easily love [the Party]?
It was an every day, 24-7 sort of thing, not some boring thing that we attended for one hour every week, under duress. Also, in school, they weave all the [Party] lessons into everything, so again, it's not set aside as one boring hour a week when you have to go to [Party Class] with kids you do not even know, who do not go to your regular school.
Or:
My children attend a [Party] program called [insert name]. The classroom setting is called the Atrium, so many people refer to it as that. My children have developed a relationship with [Dear Leader] at a very young age. it's much more personal than the classroom [Party] ed programs.
Or:
Our [Local Party Chapter] is focused on the idea that to develop and sustain faith, you need roughly five adults (who are not you) pouring into & interacting with your child on a regular basis. I think the concept comes from a series of books called Orange & Parenting Beyond Your Capacity. This could be [Party Education] teachers, scout leaders, your own friends, a [Party] youth [representative], other adult volunteers with youth [Party], sports coaches who model good values, etc. Our [Party] youth [representative] also really emphasizes how much time children spend with parents vs. the [Party] - we can't expect our [Party] to do all of this spiritual development. Even if you're there for three events/week (unlikely for most families), that's only six hours out of the many more that parents spend with their kids. So talking about faith & modeling it at home is the first step, and then finding a community that will support and your sustain your efforts is the next most important thing.
I have a young child at this point, so it's easier talking about [Communism] with her at this stage of life. It permeates our home life...
Or:
I want my children to love [Dear Leader]. I want them to be faithful [Party] boys and faithful [Party] men one day. I want this because I have very sincere beliefs that cause me to know that a strong faith has enriched my life in countless ways. I want them to be similarly enriched. So you may think it is weird that I want my kids to love [Dear Leader], but that is just a normal thing for people who truly believe. We want to share that belief. That belief brings us joy that we would never want to keep to ourselves.
I'm not doing this to be obnoxious, and I do honestly think there's a difference between believing in God and being a devout Party member. Despite my saying that, I know that there are some people who are going to be insulted by the implicit comparison. I'm simply putting these words in a different belief context to show how they look when the authors aren't talking about religion, and they do have a significant element of indoctrination to them.
Now compare that to -
I would like for my kids to love and find comfort in [the Party], but know I do not control this - that I can only expose/introduce them to [Communism] in various ways. In raising them as I have ... my hope is that they develop enough of a "faith muscle" to enable them to seek out [the Party] on their own when they want or need that. I know from personal experience that faith waxes and wanes, but OTOH for me, the comfort of the liturgy, especially during difficult times, does not. I hope I have given them enough of a foundation that they seek this out for themselves as adults.
That's respecting your kids, teaching them, and allowing them to make their own choices.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 13:42
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Anonymous wrote:Can we rename this thread "religious families - how to brainwash children"?
Don't be obnoxious.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 12:17
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
I was raised religious and truly don't recall any emphasis on the need for me to love god. It was god who loved and supposedly protected me.
I'd also say, that while it may not be "weird" for a religious person to want their children to love God, it may not be the norm either. Some people want their kids to be religious because they think it gives them a moral sense they would not otherwise have. Some parents want their kids to be fearful of offending a God who will punish them eternally if they go astray of god's teachings.
Also, while your faith has enriched you, your kids may not feel enriched by it. Besides, they can always find religion on their own- many people do.
I'd also say, that while it may not be "weird" for a religious person to want their children to love God, it may not be the norm either. Some people want their kids to be religious because they think it gives them a moral sense they would not otherwise have. Some parents want their kids to be fearful of offending a God who will punish them eternally if they go astray of god's teachings.
Also, while your faith has enriched you, your kids may not feel enriched by it. Besides, they can always find religion on their own- many people do.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 11:15
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Anonymous wrote:I'm weirded out by the "love god" wording. I can understand parents wanting children to follow in their religious footsteps, but not believing in god(s) doesn't translate to "hating" god(s).
That's like saying that because I don't believe in Santa Clause, or Bigfoot, or the Tooth Fairy, that I don't love them - or that I "hate" them.
It has nothing to do with love/hate - some people just believe, and others don't. It either clicks or it doesn't. Agree with others - it's not a reflection of the parents if older kids and adults don't believe. Even when I was forced to go to Sunday School, I had lots of doubts. But when I was a kid, I didn't think there was any option except to believe. Now I know otherwise, and openly utilize my own mind to think and decide for myself.
I'm 7:14, the poster with the two middle schoolers. I appreciate your comments, but I think you just set up a straw man and knocked it down. Has a poster equated not loving God with "hating" God? I haven't seen that in this thread. To be clear, both of my sons believe in God, and further believe that Jesus is his divine son. My angst comes from the fact that they have zero enthusiasm for anything that would point towards actually puting that faith into practice.
I want my children to love God. I want them to be faithful Christian boys and faithful Christian men one day. I want this because I have very sincere beliefs that cause me to know that a strong faith has enriched my life in countless ways. I want them to be similarly enriched. So you may think it is weird that I want my kids to love God, but that is just a normal thing for people who truly believe. We want to share that belief. That belief brings us joy that we would never want to keep to ourselves.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 08:40
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
I'm weirded out by the "love god" wording. I can understand parents wanting children to follow in their religious footsteps, but not believing in god(s) doesn't translate to "hating" god(s).
That's like saying that because I don't believe in Santa Clause, or Bigfoot, or the Tooth Fairy, that I don't love them - or that I "hate" them.
It has nothing to do with love/hate - some people just believe, and others don't. It either clicks or it doesn't. Agree with others - it's not a reflection of the parents if older kids and adults don't believe. Even when I was forced to go to Sunday School, I had lots of doubts. But when I was a kid, I didn't think there was any option except to believe. Now I know otherwise, and openly utilize my own mind to think and decide for myself.
That's like saying that because I don't believe in Santa Clause, or Bigfoot, or the Tooth Fairy, that I don't love them - or that I "hate" them.
It has nothing to do with love/hate - some people just believe, and others don't. It either clicks or it doesn't. Agree with others - it's not a reflection of the parents if older kids and adults don't believe. Even when I was forced to go to Sunday School, I had lots of doubts. But when I was a kid, I didn't think there was any option except to believe. Now I know otherwise, and openly utilize my own mind to think and decide for myself.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 08:21
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Like a PP, I found that Catholic school really helps. I struggle with my faith and also really don't enjoy attending mass--never have; don't like being there, don't like getting ready for it..etc…but without getting into a philosophical or psychological discussion, bottom line is I recognize that there are benefits to being brought up with faith and want to give that, and the accompanying moral compass, to my kids.
We transferred into a Catholic school 2+ years ago and I think it's the trick.
I find the Catholic school helps both with the areas that I'm weak in (the faith) and reinforces the areas I'm strong in (the moral compass). It's not just the teachers; it's the other kids and parents. In my experience at a non-Catholic school vs. two Catholic schools, the Catholic kids and the parents were just a nicer lot. Many of the parents (I'm generalizing here) seem to come from a place of trying to be better people; do the right thing, etc. Of course it's got to be a good school, OP, and the right fit for the family.
What's great about Catholic school is (at the elementary stage) the politically charged issues are not involved at all; it's about how to be more Christ-like, having empathy for others--all the good stuff.
We've recently moved to DC, and in our old city we were more integrated because the school families all went to the connected church on the weekends, and the priest was very engaging both in mass and in the school. The kids looked forward to the mass, seeing their friends, and of course the donuts!
Here, we skip mass a lot because our nearby church is not connected to the kids' school and the priests aren't as engaging. It's hard for me to motivate myself, let alone everyone else, to go to mass, but I've found that the combination of them going to the school and us going to mass even intermittently is enough to keep both the faith and the moral teachings in play.
We transferred into a Catholic school 2+ years ago and I think it's the trick.
I find the Catholic school helps both with the areas that I'm weak in (the faith) and reinforces the areas I'm strong in (the moral compass). It's not just the teachers; it's the other kids and parents. In my experience at a non-Catholic school vs. two Catholic schools, the Catholic kids and the parents were just a nicer lot. Many of the parents (I'm generalizing here) seem to come from a place of trying to be better people; do the right thing, etc. Of course it's got to be a good school, OP, and the right fit for the family.
What's great about Catholic school is (at the elementary stage) the politically charged issues are not involved at all; it's about how to be more Christ-like, having empathy for others--all the good stuff.
We've recently moved to DC, and in our old city we were more integrated because the school families all went to the connected church on the weekends, and the priest was very engaging both in mass and in the school. The kids looked forward to the mass, seeing their friends, and of course the donuts!
Here, we skip mass a lot because our nearby church is not connected to the kids' school and the priests aren't as engaging. It's hard for me to motivate myself, let alone everyone else, to go to mass, but I've found that the combination of them going to the school and us going to mass even intermittently is enough to keep both the faith and the moral teachings in play.
Anonymous
01/07/2014 07:56
Subject: Religious families-Do your children easily love God?
Can we rename this thread "religious families - how to brainwash children"?