Greatschools.com is a great resource, and it can be very helpful. There certainly is a correlation between the numerical score and how good a school is generally considered, because the numerical rating is based on state exam pass rates, however there are a few things that can "distort" a greatschool score for example:

1. If the school has a magnet or IB program that isn't technically considered another school. It could be that the magnet kids are testing way way higher than the average population, and the neighborhood kids are testing way lower. If there is a fantastic magnet program that meets the needs of your kids, that shouldn't deter you from sending your kids there (in fact, it might be a far better choice than a higher ranked neighborhood school). Likewise, if the scores are artificially higher due to the magnet kids, it would be a cause for concern for someone who had kids who would not test into the magnet or IB program.

2. If the school is extremely socioeconomically diverse, and there is a lot of tracking to different levels of classes (honors, AP, etc. versus regular). From what has been written on this board, it seems like Washington and Lee is like this, although I wouldn't know because I don't have kids there. It could be the kids taking honors and AP classes get a great education on par with a higher rated school, just the overall scores are brought down on average by lower SES families with less resources. Again, I don't think that is necessarily a reason to shy away from a good school as long as it meets your kid's needs.

3. The numerical scores between states are just not comparable. You cannot compare Virginia to Maryland to DC, because the exams by which these scores are based on are different. And "above average" differs from state to state. A school with a numerical great schools score of 9 or 10 in, say, Hawaii, which has horrible public schools, is not necessarily better than a score of 5 in Virginia or Massachusetts. This entire discussion of Washington and Lee versus Wilson is moot; different tests are being used to come up with that number. Both Wilson and Washington DC are very diverse schools that have a large contingent of highly educated professional parents, and so I would consider more closely the peer group that *your* kid is going to be in, along with the course offerings/rigor of their curriculum rather than averages.

This is why you need to look at these numbers with a grain of salt. They can be useful, but you have to look at the whole picture.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate the discussion here and honestly I think most parents don't give greatschools.com that much weight.

Greatschools.com simply takes all state public schools, rank them by their standardized test scores, and then break them into ten groups. This might be useful if there were only one factor that could possibly contribute to a school's test scores and that factor were the same for every school in the state. This is quite obviously not the case. Many factors contribute to a school's test scores, but none of them is visible or can be properly appreciated from the greatschools.com website. And keep in mind as well that for simple mathematical reasons, a school rated a low "6" can be improving steadily, yet still fall to a "5" simply because a few high "5" schools off in another part of the county somewhere managed to improve even more rapidly. Still, people are always going to be curious, so even those who know better will go look up greatschools.com ratings, even if just to get it over with.

There are much, much better sources out there. School system and local school websites have a plethora of useful information. This typically includes PTA contacts who can and typically will offer another parent's view free for the asking. Nothing beats actually visiting the school, and observing a class while school is in session, and speaking to parents who have been there for a few years.

I am personally looking for MS and HS where my kids would be academically challenged, get a solid education, and still enjoy a normal happy childhood in a family friendly neighborhood. We are more interested in the journey, than the final destination. It's okay if they don't get in early decision to Harvard. Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled. Parents fail to realize sometimes it's the child, not necessarily the school. Some students are independently driven, and hard working, and they will get into their top choice school whether they attend W-L or Yorktown. They both seem like wonderful schools, and one may be a better fit for one child/family than the other.

The thing with the great schools ranking number is just an algorithm based on publicly available data. It provides a good reference point and much better than the subjective and skewed viewpoints you get from those in the school.

Asking PTA members isn't a good way to go. They will say the school is great. Visiting the school helps but you don't gain much in that very tiny snapshot of time and of course everything and everyone is going to be as pleasant as possible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

hahahahahah you are too much. We get it, you love WL it's the best place evearrahhhhhhh. Just not for everyone. Did you see the zillow commercial? It shows the family skip a school with a bad great schools rating. That's what people do they follow data and review websites.

Just trying to balance out these comments with some helpful advice. If people think the better investment is in a DC neighborhood with a public high school that has a higher Greatschools ranking, then more power to them. Wilson HS just doesn't have the same appeal as W-L, Yorktown, Wakefield and most Northern Va schools even if it may have a higher Greatschools score. In a few years, after DCPS works out the new attendance zones, Wilson might become a very desirable school... I don't think the Zillow commercial is working for most Arlington homebuyers, because they are continuing to buy pricey homes in neighborhoods with low Greatschools scores, and the schools are growing without any sign of leveling off.

I'm curious what your actual first-hand knowledge of Wilson is such that you can make these claims.

OP here. I appreciate the discussion here and honestly I think most parents don't give greatschools.com that much weight.

Greatschools.com simply takes all state public schools, rank them by their standardized test scores, and then break them into ten groups. This might be useful if there were only one factor that could possibly contribute to a school's test scores and that factor were the same for every school in the state. This is quite obviously not the case. Many factors contribute to a school's test scores, but none of them is visible or can be properly appreciated from the greatschools.com website. And keep in mind as well that for simple mathematical reasons, a school rated a low "6" can be improving steadily, yet still fall to a "5" simply because a few high "5" schools off in another part of the county somewhere managed to improve even more rapidly. Still, people are always going to be curious, so even those who know better will go look up greatschools.com ratings, even if just to get it over with.

There are much, much better sources out there. School system and local school websites have a plethora of useful information. This typically includes PTA contacts who can and typically will offer another parent's view free for the asking. Nothing beats actually visiting the school, and observing a class while school is in session, and speaking to parents who have been there for a few years.

I am personally looking for MS and HS where my kids would be academically challenged, get a solid education, and still enjoy a normal happy childhood in a family friendly neighborhood. We are more interested in the journey, than the final destination. It's okay if they don't get in early decision to Harvard. Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled. Parents fail to realize sometimes it's the child, not necessarily the school. Some students are independently driven, and hard working, and they will get into their top choice school whether they attend W-L or Yorktown. They both seem like wonderful schools, and one may be a better fit for one child/family than the other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Seriously? The Greatshchools nonsense is getting to everyones heads. Or at least the trolls. Where was the "Yorktown troll" who probably isn't even from Arlington, when Yorktown had "low" Greatschools scores a couple years ago. Comparing the VA SOLs to DC's standardized tests is insanity. Many of the DC high schools have scores of 3,4,5,6, and 7 yet most all affluent residents avoid them like the plague (with the exception of Wilson and SWW). Many are moving to Arlington, Moco, and FCPS for the schools. If you look at W-L's actual test scores on the VA Dept of Education site (link posted previously in different thread) Hispanic, White, and Black students scored at the same level as Yorktown students and above their Wakefield peers. Asian students scored below their Yorktown and Wakefield peers. Greatschools, like most rating sites all develop different algorithms to determine rankings based on scores. Schooldigger is a rival rating site based on the VA SOL test scores that gives Yorktown and W-L the same ranking. Regarding National Merit Semifinalists and Finalists, W-L tends to have the most impressive numbers in the county every year. Overall Yorktown has the highest SAT scores in the county, and both W-L's and Yorktown's SAT scores are very good. W-L tends to have the most grads headed to ivy league schools. In addition to the two Harvard early admits, one student each was accepted into Columbia and UPenn.

Don't believe the trolls. We love our Arlington schools. All the families we know at Yorktown and W-L are wonderful, and many N Arlington families have kids at both high schools. The "Yorktown troll" would probably be shocked to learn that roughly 200 students transfer from Yorktown into W-L every year for the IB program. In fact, looking at the car school "magnets" or bumper stickers around N Arlington you will see that many cars have both Yorktown and W-L magnets. OP, I think you will love Swanson, W-L, or Yorktown, depending on where you end up purchasing.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but your transfer number seemed high to me, so I checked. Turns out the number of transfers from Yorktown to W-L is typically between 130-140 students. That's not "roughly 200," unless you're OK with a large margin of error.

In any event, I'd personally be fine with sending me kids to W-L, but somewhat creeped out that there are parents there as invested as you seem to be in dissecting the test scores and college admissions of all the students there. Your post almost reads as if you'd like to eliminate the Asian students at W-L to make the school look better vis-a-vis Yorktown. Sometimes a bit less micro-analysis is the stronger argument. Are the kids happy there?

Kids go to H-B. Neighbors go to mostly Yorktown and few at W-L. I just got fed up of reading all the troll posts, and I don't like seeing perfectly fine schools get slammed on an anonymous forum. A few months ago a parent asked for genuine advice on Arlington schools, not Greatschools ratings which she had already looked up. The troll posts soon followed saying W-L had a bad Greatschools score and to avoid it. A little research behind the test scores show that the high schools' scores are more similar than not.

Anonymous wrote:
Seriously? The Greatshchools nonsense is getting to everyones heads. Or at least the trolls. Where was the "Yorktown troll" who probably isn't even from Arlington, when Yorktown had "low" Greatschools scores a couple years ago. Comparing the VA SOLs to DC's standardized tests is insanity. Many of the DC high schools have scores of 3,4,5,6, and 7 yet most all affluent residents avoid them like the plague (with the exception of Wilson and SWW). Many are moving to Arlington, Moco, and FCPS for the schools. If you look at W-L's actual test scores on the VA Dept of Education site (link posted previously in different thread) Hispanic, White, and Black students scored at the same level as Yorktown students and above their Wakefield peers. Asian students scored below their Yorktown and Wakefield peers. Greatschools, like most rating sites all develop different algorithms to determine rankings based on scores. Schooldigger is a rival rating site based on the VA SOL test scores that gives Yorktown and W-L the same ranking. Regarding National Merit Semifinalists and Finalists, W-L tends to have the most impressive numbers in the county every year. Overall Yorktown has the highest SAT scores in the county, and both W-L's and Yorktown's SAT scores are very good. W-L tends to have the most grads headed to ivy league schools. In addition to the two Harvard early admits, one student each was accepted into Columbia and UPenn.

Don't believe the trolls. We love our Arlington schools. All the families we know at Yorktown and W-L are wonderful, and many N Arlington families have kids at both high schools. The "Yorktown troll" would probably be shocked to learn that roughly 200 students transfer from Yorktown into W-L every year for the IB program. In fact, looking at the car school "magnets" or bumper stickers around N Arlington you will see that many cars have both Yorktown and W-L magnets. OP, I think you will love Swanson, W-L, or Yorktown, depending on where you end up purchasing.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but your transfer number seemed high to me, so I checked. Turns out the number of transfers from Yorktown to W-L is typically between 130-140 students. That's not "roughly 200," unless you're OK with a large margin of error.

In any event, I'd personally be fine with sending me kids to W-L, but somewhat creeped out that there are parents there as invested as you seem to be in dissecting the test scores and college admissions of all the students there. Your post almost reads as if you'd like to eliminate the Asian students at W-L to make the school look better vis-a-vis Yorktown. Sometimes a bit less micro-analysis is the stronger argument. Are the kids happy there?

Anonymous wrote:

hahahahahah you are too much. We get it, you love WL it's the best place evearrahhhhhhh. Just not for everyone. Did you see the zillow commercial? It shows the family skip a school with a bad great schools rating. That's what people do they follow data and review websites.

Just trying to balance out these comments with some helpful advice. If people think the better investment is in a DC neighborhood with a public high school that has a higher Greatschools ranking, then more power to them. Wilson HS just doesn't have the same appeal as W-L, Yorktown, Wakefield and most Northern Va schools even if it may have a higher Greatschools score. In a few years, after DCPS works out the new attendance zones, Wilson might become a very desirable school... I don't think the Zillow commercial is working for most Arlington homebuyers, because they are continuing to buy pricey homes in neighborhoods with low Greatschools scores, and the schools are growing without any sign of leveling off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The beauty of the W-L district for people moving from DC (as compared to some wonderfully diverse high schools in FCPS) is the ease of commuting to DC. Even driving during rush hour, I can be at 18th and K in under 25 minutes.

Still just gets a 5 on GreatSchools, which isn't very impressive. That's particularly a concern if your kid ends up not taking all IB or AP courses.

http://www.greatschools.org/virginia/arlington/133-Washington-Lee-High-School/

+1, I guess it's an improvement from DC. But it's all relative and would be a downgrade from most FCPS or MCPS.

Maybe not. Wilson gets a greatschools rating of 7.

http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/105-Wilson-High-School/

Seriously? The Greatshchools nonsense is getting to everyones heads. Or at least the trolls. Where was the "Yorktown troll" who probably isn't even from Arlington, when Yorktown had "low" Greatschools scores a couple years ago. Comparing the VA SOLs to DC's standardized tests is insanity. Many of the DC high schools have scores of 3,4,5,6, and 7 yet most all affluent residents avoid them like the plague (with the exception of Wilson and SWW). Many are moving to Arlington, Moco, and FCPS for the schools. If you look at W-L's actual test scores on the VA Dept of Education site (link posted previously in different thread) Hispanic, White, and Black students scored at the same level as Yorktown students and above their Wakefield peers. Asian students scored below their Yorktown and Wakefield peers. Greatschools, like most rating sites all develop different algorithms to determine rankings based on scores. Schooldigger is a rival rating site based on the VA SOL test scores that gives Yorktown and W-L the same ranking. Regarding National Merit Semifinalists and Finalists, W-L tends to have the most impressive numbers in the county every year. Overall Yorktown has the highest SAT scores in the county, and both W-L's and Yorktown's SAT scores are very good. W-L tends to have the most grads headed to ivy league schools. In addition to the two Harvard early admits, one student each was accepted into Columbia and UPenn.

Don't believe the trolls. We love our Arlington schools. All the families we know at Yorktown and W-L are wonderful, and many N Arlington families have kids at both high schools. The "Yorktown troll" would probably be shocked to learn that roughly 200 students transfer from Yorktown into W-L every year for the IB program. In fact, looking at the car school "magnets" or bumper stickers around N Arlington you will see that many cars have both Yorktown and W-L magnets. OP, I think you will love Swanson, W-L, or Yorktown, depending on where you end up purchasing.

hahahahahah you are too much. We get it, you love WL it's the best place evearrahhhhhhh. Just not for everyone. Did you see the zillow commercial? It shows the family skip a school with a bad great schools rating. That's what people do they follow data and review websites.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The beauty of the W-L district for people moving from DC (as compared to some wonderfully diverse high schools in FCPS) is the ease of commuting to DC. Even driving during rush hour, I can be at 18th and K in under 25 minutes.

Still just gets a 5 on GreatSchools, which isn't very impressive. That's particularly a concern if your kid ends up not taking all IB or AP courses.

http://www.greatschools.org/virginia/arlington/133-Washington-Lee-High-School/

+1, I guess it's an improvement from DC. But it's all relative and would be a downgrade from most FCPS or MCPS.

Maybe not. Wilson gets a greatschools rating of 7.

http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/105-Wilson-High-School/

Seriously? The Greatshchools nonsense is getting to everyones heads. Or at least the trolls. Where was the "Yorktown troll" who probably isn't even from Arlington, when Yorktown had "low" Greatschools scores a couple years ago. Comparing the VA SOLs to DC's standardized tests is insanity. Many of the DC high schools have scores of 3,4,5,6, and 7 yet most all affluent residents avoid them like the plague (with the exception of Wilson and SWW). Many are moving to Arlington, Moco, and FCPS for the schools. If you look at W-L's actual test scores on the VA Dept of Education site (link posted previously in different thread) Hispanic, White, and Black students scored at the same level as Yorktown students and above their Wakefield peers. Asian students scored below their Yorktown and Wakefield peers. Greatschools, like most rating sites all develop different algorithms to determine rankings based on scores. Schooldigger is a rival rating site based on the VA SOL test scores that gives Yorktown and W-L the same ranking. Regarding National Merit Semifinalists and Finalists, W-L tends to have the most impressive numbers in the county every year. Overall Yorktown has the highest SAT scores in the county, and both W-L's and Yorktown's SAT scores are very good. W-L tends to have the most grads headed to ivy league schools. In addition to the two Harvard early admits, one student each was accepted into Columbia and UPenn.

Don't believe the trolls. We love our Arlington schools. All the families we know at Yorktown and W-L are wonderful, and many N Arlington families have kids at both high schools. The "Yorktown troll" would probably be shocked to learn that roughly 200 students transfer from Yorktown into W-L every year for the IB program. In fact, looking at the car school "magnets" or bumper stickers around N Arlington you will see that many cars have both Yorktown and W-L magnets. OP, I think you will love Swanson, W-L, or Yorktown, depending on where you end up purchasing.

OP here. To answer an earlier PP, no we aren't considering FCPS due to the commute. DH works in Chinatown for the conceivable future, so trying to minimize the impact of a long commute to the extent possible. Not interested in Maryland schools. Grandparents and extended family live in NWDC so the ease of commute to their school activities, and our home is key.

OP here. Thanks, 11:10. We are considering the City of Falls Church but its not out 1st choice b/c of the longer commute. It's also incredibly difficult to find homes there but we aren't ruling it out. We have colleagues who rave about the schools there.

OP, would you consider Falls Church City? We moved from a WotP elementary zoned for Deal well before middle school, so I can't really speak to middle school quality in either district but we are very happy with our move. My husband's commute to Foggy Bottom is easy (he carpools on 66). It isn't the most diverse place, but its not lily-white, either. George Mason High School is IB.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks PP. It sounds like you left at least 3-4 years ago. IF we fed into Deal MS (which is now fantastic), we would definitely stay in DC but alas we don't. Any feedback on Swanson vs Williamsburg MS and W-L vs Yorktown? I am leaning towards homes in the Swanson/ W-L pyramids but haven't visited all the schools yet. Very impressed w/ W-L after recent IB open house. Granted, that's assuming my kids get into the IB program but regardless seems like a wonderful school. Does Swanson have regular school tours like the other schools? Sorry to bombard you with questions. Making our school tours this month and next.

IB at W-L is open admission. No special application is required. They will tell you the same things about IB that you'll hear at other IB schools. It's a marketing pitch developed by the IBO, and largely geared towards parents, but not that many kids at W-L actually want to do the full IB diploma.

The IB diploma track at W-L is not open admission, and there are strict grades and course requirements. Most in-bounds kids take AP classes with one or two IB electives. Transfer students must take a minimum of 3 IB classes a year. The AP program is very strong, as is the IB program. The two early admission Harvard bound seniors are not IB diploma candidates. There were about 50 IB diploma students last year, and the diploma pass rate is 95% at W-L.

13:20 again--I just yesterday heard about the W-L students admitted early to Harvard--terrific news!

For them, sure. But you seem to take pleasure in it too for some reason?

I'm happy for those students. That's pleasurable to me. Are you unhappy for them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We too are trying to avoid Hardy and Wilson b/c these schools aren't a good fit for our kids. We aren't interested in the middle school charters b/c it's a temporary fix and doesn't resolve HS.

Define "good fit," please. There are kids at Hardy and Wilson who are every bit the intellectual equal of kids in Arlington schools.

Of course there are, and no one has said otherwise.

Our DCPS elementary fed into Hardy and we knew several families that were happy there. We were reluctant to send our kid there though, because we were concerned about the administration's approach to discipline at the school at that time (and we had a kid who had a history of needing discipline at school).

We also became aware that most of the kids we knew who were thriving in DCPS middle and high schools were highly motivated, mature, and self-disciplined girls. This was anecdotal, of course, but our neighbors and friends who had boys all seemed to have mixed or negative experiences as their kids progressed through DCPS. Since we had a boy who had some behavioral issues, this was a huge red flag for us. We considered other middle schools but we are very uncomfortable with charter schools on principle and didn't want to support one, and we weren't thrilled about the other options open to us.

At the same time, we had seen a lot of changes at our elementary school, driven in part by the changing demographics of the school population, and so we were concerned about what the future would bring for Hardy, as Rhee sought to make it more attractive to neighborhood residents. We anticipated a great deal of turmoil--and it turns out we were right. (We also strongly disliked Michelle Rhee and just felt generally unsettled about where DCPS was heading.)

All this was going on at the same time that we felt we had outgrown our home. We realized that the only way we could afford more space in the city was to move substantially east. That would have been fine, except that (a) raised elementary school concerns for our younger child (we'd either have to move to a poorly performing school or commute across the city to stay at our current school), (b) complicated "commuting" concerns for our older child (since we'd be moving far away from the middle schools we were considering), and (c) significantly increased commuting times for me and especially for my DH.

Ultimately, we decided that, given our concerns, needs, and wants, it made no sense to stay in the city. We moved to Arlington, where for about the same amount of money we bought a bigger house with yard, largely worry-free educations for our children (so far, anyway), and reasonable commutes for both DH and me. I was very sad to leave, but ultimately it was win-win-win for us. We have no regrets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The beauty of the W-L district for people moving from DC (as compared to some wonderfully diverse high schools in FCPS) is the ease of commuting to DC. Even driving during rush hour, I can be at 18th and K in under 25 minutes.

Still just gets a 5 on GreatSchools, which isn't very impressive. That's particularly a concern if your kid ends up not taking all IB or AP courses.

http://www.greatschools.org/virginia/arlington/133-Washington-Lee-High-School/

+1, I guess it's an improvement from DC. But it's all relative and would be a downgrade from most FCPS or MCPS.

Maybe not. Wilson gets a greatschools rating of 7.

http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/105-Wilson-High-School/