Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many gender roles are taught this way. In a way that the occasional visit from uncle, aunt, grandpa, our neighbor doesn't deeply satisfy it. Our neighbors are lesbians raising two boys. They cling to my husband when he comes over, because they are so hungry to just see male behavior from a father figure. Their grandfather visits regularly. but they honestly find my husband more compelling.. The boys mother is very handy and fix most stuff on her own, but again- I think it's just a hunger to be around other men. When they come over to play, they spend much of their time following my husband around. I am not pathologizing any of this, and I know that their mothers love them very much. I just see there is a hole to be filled there that no one is acknowledging in this conversation.

So, to summarize, the cute lesbians who live down the street (the ones that let you feel so proud of how tolerant you are), one of whom is, in your eyes, typically "male" because she is "handy", are raising two boys, and despite all of the studies that were just cited, you just know there's something missing in their lives because they follow your husband around.

My sister, her husband, and their three boys live here, too, and I see them several times a week. Whenever I'm at their house, all three of them cling to me and compete for my attention because that's a normal thing for kids to do. I wonder what you'd think is missing in their lives?

I think having regular interaction with a male that demonstrates societal gender roles is what is missing in their lives. If RGIII showed up they would chase him down the street, too. Sure, one partner is more butch and one is more femme- but I don't think anyone should take offense to this observation as this is pretty common to human pairing regardless of sexual orientation- polarity just happens. You also assume I am some pearl clutcher that has never had a gay or lesbian friend in my life and I just hold my neighbors up as "my lesbian friends". I will cop to some institutionalized homophobia- I think everyone has some, and I will own mine. I also think as much as we would like to think gender roles aren't an equation in life, they just are. I have observed in my life that kids raised by two genders tend to be more confident and socially astute. I guess I am demon who just patronizes and dismisses lesbians piecemeal for not saying its an ideal relationship to raise boys.

But what are those, really? I'm a straight woman married to a man. I do all the house and car repairs, yard work, etc. My husband does all the cooking. We share cleaning. Both of us are nurturing and affectionate. Not stereotypical gender roles. But not uncommon today. I don't think those gender roles matter much anymore. Values like kindness and teamwork matter more.

Anonymous wrote:
But what are those, really? I'm a straight woman married to a man. I do all the house and car repairs, yard work, etc. My husband does all the cooking. We share cleaning. Both of us are nurturing and affectionate. Not stereotypical gender roles. But not uncommon today. I don't think those gender roles matter much anymore. Values like kindness and teamwork matter more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, op is right. Recent studies show that children of same sex couples are less likely to graduate high school, and are more prone to addiction. I admit it's difficult to find objective info, and easier to engage in the ironically lazy name-calling of the PP

I have seen many studies that compare outcomes and find no disadvantage for children of same sex couples, and one study that found a difference. That one study compared a group of adults who had grown up in intact heterosexual married couple families, with a group of adults who reported that their parents had, at least once, had a same sex relationship. The second group included children whose married biological parents got divorced, and one of whom later had a same sex relationships. It included people who raised children in single parent households. It included families where one parent died. It also included exactly two adults who were raised by intact homosexual couples, that is couples who were together from the child's birth onward. We know that divorce, single parenting, and parental death all increase the likelihood of negative outcomes for children, there's plenty of research that supports that view. So, why not take it out of the question, by controlling for those factors?

Anonymous wrote:I do think there is value in having parents of two genders to learn how to behave with people of both genders, and although these studies are compelling, I do think something is missing when children don't live with both genders. This goes for hetero single parents as well. I think humanity figured this out early on and this is why marriage was structured the way it is, to maximize development of children.

So many gender roles are taught this way. In a way that the occasional visit from uncle, aunt, grandpa, our neighbor doesn't deeply satisfy it. Our neighbors are lesbians raising two boys. They cling to my husband when he comes over, because they are so hungry to just see male behavior from a father figure. Their grandfather visits regularly. but they honestly find my husband more compelling.. The boys mother is very handy and fix most stuff on her own, but again- I think it's just a hunger to be around other men. When they come over to play, they spend much of their time following my husband around. I am not pathologizing any of this, and I know that their mothers love them very much. I just see there is a hole to be filled there that no one is acknowledging in this conversation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an example, although it happened a little later in my childhood. My parents (hetero) divorced when I was 12 and my mother dated a women (who lived with us) after that. Although I say this myself (!), I'm a pretty well-adjusted person. I have a higher degree, professional job, great children, wonderful marriage (to a DH!), $1m + house in NW DC, happy, probably more understanding and accepting of others than most. I can't think of ways to show "success" in life!! Anyway, my siblings are the same way. The only problem I had with it all was my mother not being open and honest about everything, and my friends wondering what was going on. But nobody was ever rude to me or avoided me because of it. I became very close to this other woman. Unfortunately, the relationship fell apart after I was a grown up.

I haven't read all the posts, but I think everyone needs to step back and remember that all parents are different because they all have a different personality. Their gender persuasion or sexual practices have less influence on their children's development than the hundreds of other factors about them.

Why do people always have to list what they HAVE as evidence that they're well adjusted?

To me, that oozes insecurity.

It's not enough to say you're just happy? or happily married with a satisfying career?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an example, although it happened a little later in my childhood. My parents (hetero) divorced when I was 12 and my mother dated a women (who lived with us) after that. Although I say this myself (!), I'm a pretty well-adjusted person. I have a higher degree, professional job, great children, wonderful marriage (to a DH!), $1m + house in NW DC, happy, probably more understanding and accepting of others than most. I can't think of ways to show "success" in life!! Anyway, my siblings are the same way. The only problem I had with it all was my mother not being open and honest about everything, and my friends wondering what was going on. But nobody was ever rude to me or avoided me because of it. I became very close to this other woman. Unfortunately, the relationship fell apart after I was a grown up.

I haven't read all the posts, but I think everyone needs to step back and remember that all parents are different because they all have a different personality. Their gender persuasion or sexual practices have less influence on their children's development than the hundreds of other factors about them.

Why do people always have to list what they HAVE as evidence that they're well adjusted?

To me, that oozes insecurity.

It's not enough to say you're just happy? or happily married with a satisfying career?

I'm the PP. Yes, I followed that with a comment that I didn't know how to measure "success" or even what people are looking for. I just rattled off the usual stuff I see here. I didn't know what OP would consider successful ... if I just said satisfying career, they might conclude that I didn't do well at school, etc. Or just happy might insinuate I don't have high ambitions for myself, or whatever. At least I didn't say I went to a Top 3 and am now in Big Law ...

What do you think OP wants to know? I don't have horns.

And by the way, I am not at all insecure.

Anonymous wrote:I'm an example, although it happened a little later in my childhood. My parents (hetero) divorced when I was 12 and my mother dated a women (who lived with us) after that. Although I say this myself (!), I'm a pretty well-adjusted person. I have a higher degree, professional job, great children, wonderful marriage (to a DH!), $1m + house in NW DC, happy, probably more understanding and accepting of others than most. I can't think of ways to show "success" in life!! Anyway, my siblings are the same way. The only problem I had with it all was my mother not being open and honest about everything, and my friends wondering what was going on. But nobody was ever rude to me or avoided me because of it. I became very close to this other woman. Unfortunately, the relationship fell apart after I was a grown up.

I haven't read all the posts, but I think everyone needs to step back and remember that all parents are different because they all have a different personality. Their gender persuasion or sexual practices have less influence on their children's development than the hundreds of other factors about them.

Anonymous wrote:8:27 here I am NOT saying they are bad parents at all, quite the opposite in fact. But there will be areas where two dads might lack some of the personal experience to help her through a difficult time, like puberty. This would be the same situation if there was no mom in the picture for other reasons.