Anonymous
Post 12/17/2013 12:05     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'd like my child to attend a college where he will be challenged, meet decent people, and have a lot of opportunities to try different activities, fields, and jobs.

I think the first and third criteria are more likely to be met by a top college. I went to an Ivy League school, went to grad school at a public flagship, and then worked as a college professor at a second tier university. The kids at the Ivy were better prepared, and the public flagship kids were really hard-working. The second tier school was another matter. The kids weren't that well-prepared or hard-working, and you generally teach to the class median, so professors tended to skip the harder topics in the textbooks. Thus, the same courses were less rigorous than at the Ivy or the public flagship. Grade inflation was rampant, and teaching evaluations affected tenure decisions, so professors gave A's and assigned little debates instead of requiring papers.

That said, the second criterion isn't necessarily well-served by a top college. I met some great people at the Ivy. I also met a lot of jerks. These days, so many of the kids at top schools are headed for Wall Street that ethics may not be a top priority.


Well said, PP. I had similar experiences. Divided my undergrad years between a well regarded SLAC and a not well regarded state school for financial reasons and have two graduate degrees from an Ivy. What I would like to find for my kids is a great undergrad school that will challenge them and expand their horizons, like my SLAC did for me, but without all of the pretentious entitled kids cruising along on their parents' dime. Anybody have a recommendation?


Well you can cross Harvard off the list..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/16/harvard-bomb-threat-evacuation_n_4452983.html

Anonymous
Post 12/17/2013 10:45     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
OP -- I wanted my kid to go to an Ivy so that no one would ever give a second's thought to how smart she is. It's so hard for working women. Those that go to the highest ranked Ivies are generally treated with more respect. People in elite firms scoff at people who were diamonds in the rough at lousy state schools. I don't believe you went to a top school. If you had, you wouldn't have questioned the value.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2013 10:05     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
Anonymous wrote:I'd like my child to attend a college where he will be challenged, meet decent people, and have a lot of opportunities to try different activities, fields, and jobs.

I think the first and third criteria are more likely to be met by a top college. I went to an Ivy League school, went to grad school at a public flagship, and then worked as a college professor at a second tier university. The kids at the Ivy were better prepared, and the public flagship kids were really hard-working. The second tier school was another matter. The kids weren't that well-prepared or hard-working, and you generally teach to the class median, so professors tended to skip the harder topics in the textbooks. Thus, the same courses were less rigorous than at the Ivy or the public flagship. Grade inflation was rampant, and teaching evaluations affected tenure decisions, so professors gave A's and assigned little debates instead of requiring papers.

That said, the second criterion isn't necessarily well-served by a top college. I met some great people at the Ivy. I also met a lot of jerks. These days, so many of the kids at top schools are headed for Wall Street that ethics may not be a top priority.


Well said, PP. I had similar experiences. Divided my undergrad years between a well regarded SLAC and a not well regarded state school for financial reasons and have two graduate degrees from an Ivy. What I would like to find for my kids is a great undergrad school that will challenge them and expand their horizons, like my SLAC did for me, but without all of the pretentious entitled kids cruising along on their parents' dime. Anybody have a recommendation?
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2013 09:56     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I guess I just worry that it's a cruel, unfair world and I want my kids to have as much of a "good start" as possible. I don't care if they get rich or famous -- i just hope they will be able to live their lives without struggling constantly to make ends meet. I believe there are smart and interesting people everywhere, but I fear that we live in a world that focuses more on brands than quality. So all things being equal I hope they can have that brand name. I won't make them crazy to get that brand: I won't push them into Kumon and Mandarin lessons and what have you-- but yeah, all things being equal, I hope they will do well in the brand-name college game.


There's no doubt that it's a cruel, unfair world. And yet, it is rarely so for the children of the 1%. Or, for that matter, for the children of the 5%. I find the hand-wringing about the future of the children of the elite to be pretty unseemly.

There are parts of the world where what you do with you life and your time is much more important then the brand of your school. Not here in DC, but in the world at large. I have a friend who grew up in Cambridge,Ma went to a great school for undergrad and then went to Stanford for MA degree. She said the change from the east coast to west was difficult for her at the beginning because when people asks her to tell them about herself, such as in a mtg for a potential roommate situation, she would talk about where she grew up, what school she had gone to, where she had worked, etc essentially her resume without realizing it. It took her a number of times of getting strange looks in response to get that it was such a different norm there, people talk about themselves, their interests, hobbies, travels, lifestyle, etc in terms of who they ARE. Not what they have accomplished as a definition of self. I would cringe if I had a child who saw themself as their résumé.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 23:29     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
I'd like my child to attend a college where he will be challenged, meet decent people, and have a lot of opportunities to try different activities, fields, and jobs.

I think the first and third criteria are more likely to be met by a top college. I went to an Ivy League school, went to grad school at a public flagship, and then worked as a college professor at a second tier university. The kids at the Ivy were better prepared, and the public flagship kids were really hard-working. The second tier school was another matter. The kids weren't that well-prepared or hard-working, and you generally teach to the class median, so professors tended to skip the harder topics in the textbooks. Thus, the same courses were less rigorous than at the Ivy or the public flagship. Grade inflation was rampant, and teaching evaluations affected tenure decisions, so professors gave A's and assigned little debates instead of requiring papers.

That said, the second criterion isn't necessarily well-served by a top college. I met some great people at the Ivy. I also met a lot of jerks. These days, so many of the kids at top schools are headed for Wall Street that ethics may not be a top priority.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 22:29     Subject: Re:Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
I guess I just worry that it's a cruel, unfair world and I want my kids to have as much of a "good start" as possible. I don't care if they get rich or famous -- i just hope they will be able to live their lives without struggling constantly to make ends meet. I believe there are smart and interesting people everywhere, but I fear that we live in a world that focuses more on brands than quality. So all things being equal I hope they can have that brand name. I won't make them crazy to get that brand: I won't push them into Kumon and Mandarin lessons and what have you-- but yeah, all things being equal, I hope they will do well in the brand-name college game.


If you are not Chinese I can see why?

But Christians "push" their children in weekend activities at Church and Jews at the Synagogue (even learning Yiddish). Do you have a problem with children learning their mother tongue or tongue of origin...or is it Mandarin and Kumon that really bother you??
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 22:16     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I guess I just worry that it's a cruel, unfair world and I want my kids to have as much of a "good start" as possible. I don't care if they get rich or famous -- i just hope they will be able to live their lives without struggling constantly to make ends meet. I believe there are smart and interesting people everywhere, but I fear that we live in a world that focuses more on brands than quality. So all things being equal I hope they can have that brand name. I won't make them crazy to get that brand: I won't push them into Kumon and Mandarin lessons and what have you-- but yeah, all things being equal, I hope they will do well in the brand-name college game.


There's no doubt that it's a cruel, unfair world. And yet, it is rarely so for the children of the 1%. Or, for that matter, for the children of the 5%. I find the hand-wringing about the future of the children of the elite to be pretty unseemly.


+1
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 22:15     Subject: Re:Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
For the same reason I look for and try to eat high quality food, buy high quality clothing, use high quality medications, buy high quality machines/devices and seek high quality education. A natural desire. I have no interest in lemons.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 20:55     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
I went to a flagship state school and have worked incredibly hard my entire life. I hope things are easier for my kids than they were for me. I would love for them to get into an ivy as it would open more doors I think. Friends with kids at work who attend ivies talk about how a sub 2000 SAT score is horrendous. If I took my DD's standardized test scores and "converted" them to SAT's, she'd score about 1900 and I work so very hard with her.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 19:21     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
Anonymous wrote:I guess I just worry that it's a cruel, unfair world and I want my kids to have as much of a "good start" as possible. I don't care if they get rich or famous -- i just hope they will be able to live their lives without struggling constantly to make ends meet. I believe there are smart and interesting people everywhere, but I fear that we live in a world that focuses more on brands than quality. So all things being equal I hope they can have that brand name. I won't make them crazy to get that brand: I won't push them into Kumon and Mandarin lessons and what have you-- but yeah, all things being equal, I hope they will do well in the brand-name college game.


You are purposely putting them in the dog eat dog world so they can avoid being eaten as an adult.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 19:10     Subject: Re:Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
I really want mine to go to a "bottom" college, where they can meet some "bottom feeders" and find out what the world is really like!
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 18:59     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
Anonymous wrote:I guess I just worry that it's a cruel, unfair world and I want my kids to have as much of a "good start" as possible. I don't care if they get rich or famous -- i just hope they will be able to live their lives without struggling constantly to make ends meet. I believe there are smart and interesting people everywhere, but I fear that we live in a world that focuses more on brands than quality. So all things being equal I hope they can have that brand name. I won't make them crazy to get that brand: I won't push them into Kumon and Mandarin lessons and what have you-- but yeah, all things being equal, I hope they will do well in the brand-name college game.


There's no doubt that it's a cruel, unfair world. And yet, it is rarely so for the children of the 1%. Or, for that matter, for the children of the 5%. I find the hand-wringing about the future of the children of the elite to be pretty unseemly.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 18:48     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
I guess I just worry that it's a cruel, unfair world and I want my kids to have as much of a "good start" as possible. I don't care if they get rich or famous -- i just hope they will be able to live their lives without struggling constantly to make ends meet. I believe there are smart and interesting people everywhere, but I fear that we live in a world that focuses more on brands than quality. So all things being equal I hope they can have that brand name. I won't make them crazy to get that brand: I won't push them into Kumon and Mandarin lessons and what have you-- but yeah, all things being equal, I hope they will do well in the brand-name college game.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 18:39     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because of the differences I noted between myself (top school) and my high school friends who didn't end up a top school. Even the ones who went to the local top 10 state school seemed to stay the same as they were in high school, whereas I think I grew and changed and actually learned something new, and that's what I want for my kids. This is coming from a town in the south, so maybe the kids from DC aren't as "simple" as we were back then so the delta won't be as important.

(I am home sick today so please don't blame my school if this doesn't make sense... )


I have the opposite experience. My "top" graduate friends and family are not really doing much better than the rest, even those that opted to start a business straight out of HS.


That's a good point, but I really wasn't referring to how much money we all make. I was thinking about how I changed and grew as a person, did something with my free time besides drink beer, learned that not everyone is the same, and had to do some deep thinking that didn't always involve regurgitating memorized information.

I just hope that these state schools are now upping their game to welcome the better caliber of student that is enrolling there. For example, being able to drop a test when calculating a final grade in college is just unacceptable for an institution of "higher" learning, and that was happening at our local top 10 state university back in my day.


I was not actually talking about money either... but having the courage to do what you want and be confident about it. I would not say my friends that make over $800k a year are necessarily happier.

How many people would make great teachers but would not do it because their parents will be disappointed with them. Probably just as many go to the"top" school for their parents. I find my family/friends from "top" schools also point to their school experience and their connections at that school for their perceived "success" where my other family/friends point to passion, hard work, family support(emotional) and a little luck.

Some people in "top" schools drink too much, just do the minimum and end up in jail too. Actually a few were in the paper recently.

I think as long as kids (and parents) realize that just because they are in a "top" school does not equal an automatic "honorable" peer group it is fine. But to believe otherwise is naive.

I know lots of kids going to "top" schools, and some going to "mediocre" schools. I guess only time will tell.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2013 18:19     Subject: Why do you want your child to go to a "top" college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because of the differences I noted between myself (top school) and my high school friends who didn't end up a top school. Even the ones who went to the local top 10 state school seemed to stay the same as they were in high school, whereas I think I grew and changed and actually learned something new, and that's what I want for my kids. This is coming from a town in the south, so maybe the kids from DC aren't as "simple" as we were back then so the delta won't be as important.

(I am home sick today so please don't blame my school if this doesn't make sense... )


I have the opposite experience. My "top" graduate friends and family are not really doing much better than the rest, even those that opted to start a business straight out of HS.


That's a good point, but I really wasn't referring to how much money we all make. I was thinking about how I changed and grew as a person, did something with my free time besides drink beer, learned that not everyone is the same, and had to do some deep thinking that didn't always involve regurgitating memorized information.

I just hope that these state schools are now upping their game to welcome the better caliber of student that is enrolling there. For example, being able to drop a test when calculating a final grade in college is just unacceptable for an institution of "higher" learning, and that was happening at our local top 10 state university back in my day.