Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just finished a $300k plus renovation and came in just $3,000 over budget. The more work you put in ahead of time, the more accurate the budget will be. We had researched and knew what appliances we wanted, the materials we would use for counters (kitchen and bath) and floors before we sent the job out for bid. A contractor can present a very favorable bid if there are a large number of "allowances" that bear no reality to what you will choose. For instance, we looked at cabinet knobs that cost as little as $2 and as much as $15 a piece. If the contractor provided an allowance based on $2, our final selections which were in the $7 range would have been off. Same for the counter-tops. You can get a good price on granite right now, but we wanted soapstone. If the price had been based on granite, we would have needed a change order because soapstone currently costs a bit more. I was very clear that nothing makes me feel like I am being ripped off more than getting a price that turns out to be much lower than the actual cost.

The one thing I would have done differently, however, was to keep a tighter rein during the initial design process. There were a number of "you know what would look great" things added that when we got the initial bids, the costs were much higher than I wanted and I had to remind everyone about what we initially wanted to accomplish with the renovation. It is was too easy to get caught up in the idea of adding a powder room to the first floor and redoing the entry floor when you are doing the initial drawings. Resist the urge. Be flexible, but keep the goals of the project in mind. It will save you time.

And be honest with the arch or designer. My wife waited to admit that she wanted to move the shower from one wall to another and move the vanities in the bathroom until after we had obtained our building permit. I am glad she finally said something before we broke ground, but I wish she had spoken up sooner.

soapstone is terrible you made a huge mistake

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Builder-man here...

main feedback is hire who you trust and if you can't trust the allowances then you perhaps you should not trust the contractor.

And, I do get tired of hearing Architects marketing that they need to manage the bid process (for a fee) and the builder because the builder will cut corners. Managing the bid process is an income stream for them; having to redesign because of designs that exceed budget is an income stream; and managing construction is an income stream.

They should sell their value; not that the client needs protection from a builder who will cut corners. Well, who was paid to manage a competitive bid situation ? Who is making it about lowest dollars. You didn't hire architect based on low bid, why should you hire builder ? And you don't think that their buddies don't get last look ? BS. Happens all the time...

If they had any balls they would just do design build themselves - but ask of any of them and they will tell you the building part is a pain in the ass. So they don't want to do it but they begrudge the builder making money on their plans. In truth, we should go back to the master builder concept that existed before architects separated from builders. And that is why Design Build is actually superior. You get a better product, because a master builder takes it from design to implementation. So me, personally, I would go Design Build every day. And that's from a builder....

Yes & No (again)... we had a good architect and a good contractor. It was worth it for us to have someone who knew more than I do as the arbiter of what can be substituted and can be changed and what can't... Construction oversight fees from architect were not that much in the scheme of things and definitely ensured that a few things were re-done or caught early (even with a quality builder with integrity). We had no redesigns because of exceeding budget and no change orders due to errors or oversight by either architect or contractor.

We had no serious issues to resolve because architect, builder and we were on top of things and coordinating and communicating from start to finish.

I respect your experience but I don't believe that you or any particular builder are the sole authority who I want to trust with a couple/few hundred thousand $ of work where it's builder's view vs. mine. I want an experienced second opinion, in this case, the architect. Some things they raised we said were not an issue and were fine or we worked out between the builder, architect and us. Others we asked the builder to rethink or stick to original plan.

Your last point assumes -- again, with respect to your experience -- that you, or any particular builder are, in fact, a "Master Builder." Since there is no such certification or guarantee, your point is a good one in theory but it's not realistic to think it will fit all builders and all situations in the real world (IMO/ IME).

If I was a builder I would agree with you 100%. As a customer/owner, I've seen the value of having the oversight of an architect working with a quality builder (remembering that "value" does not mean "cheapest price.").

Anonymous wrote:We just finished a $300k plus renovation and came in just $3,000 over budget. The more work you put in ahead of time, the more accurate the budget will be. We had researched and knew what appliances we wanted, the materials we would use for counters (kitchen and bath) and floors before we sent the job out for bid. A contractor can present a very favorable bid if there are a large number of "allowances" that bear no reality to what you will choose. For instance, we looked at cabinet knobs that cost as little as $2 and as much as $15 a piece. If the contractor provided an allowance based on $2, our final selections which were in the $7 range would have been off. Same for the counter-tops. You can get a good price on granite right now, but we wanted soapstone. If the price had been based on granite, we would have needed a change order because soapstone currently costs a bit more. I was very clear that nothing makes me feel like I am being ripped off more than getting a price that turns out to be much lower than the actual cost.

The one thing I would have done differently, however, was to keep a tighter rein during the initial design process. There were a number of "you know what would look great" things added that when we got the initial bids, the costs were much higher than I wanted and I had to remind everyone about what we initially wanted to accomplish with the renovation. It is was too easy to get caught up in the idea of adding a powder room to the first floor and redoing the entry floor when you are doing the initial drawings. Resist the urge. Be flexible, but keep the goals of the project in mind. It will save you time.

And be honest with the arch or designer. My wife waited to admit that she wanted to move the shower from one wall to another and move the vanities in the bathroom until after we had obtained our building permit. I am glad she finally said something before we broke ground, but I wish she had spoken up sooner.

Anonymous wrote:NP here, just to bust into this discussion a bit - we're getting ready to start interviewing folks (DB firms and architects) on our major addition, and I have no idea what kinds of questions to ask. Does anyone have suggestions for a place to start a conversation/interview?