Needs of the service. You signed on the dotted line. You don't like it. You can leave.

Anonymous wrote:[
See, here is the thing. OP does not represent the USG. Her husband does. She is just a spouse.

Every American outside the US represents America. People who travel to places they think of as "sh*&tholes" exude a kind of ugly American attitude that the world is better off without. If OP really feels that way about the next assignment, then it's better for her to stay in the US and develop her own life and meet her husband for several times a year for a week or so at a time.

I don't know why someone would join the foreign service or marry a person in the foreign service and not expect to have to face the choice to travel to these assignments or endure family separations. It's part of the job. If your husband was a firefighter, would you complain that he has to sleep at the station when he was on duty? People join the foreign service thinking it's some kind of roving cocktail party. It's not. It's a service branch. And the US taxpayer doesn't owe you a cushy posting in Paris.

OP I remember your DH post from before. You might want to be a little more circumspect about yourself on DCUM. Unless you don't care?
Having said that, foreign service officers love their jobs and the travel and all that. You will be hard pressed to talk him out of it. It is what he wants to do, whatever he says about the money. They love the locations, the servants, the experience you name it. You know it I am sure. If it is not for you, let him go and you stay here in the US You can always visit. College is awfully expensive on a foreign service salary, so maybe you should let him go and get on with your own life --either here or there. As you know the foreign service does not care that you want a nicer posting. After all these years, you know how they think --they will send him where they think he can do the most good --usually not Paris. FS wife myself.

sorry. I meant that I really hope that her spouse values her input.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh please, PP. I'm a FSO and different strokes for different folks. I know folks who LOVE to stay in Africa while others opt to stay primarily in EUR. Hardship posts are rough if you're the type like me who love the city life, public transportation, Western convenience, etc. I'm in a hardship post now and while I love it, I had to work hard to make it work. I decided that I'm done with anymore posts requiring that my family take malaria pills or where kidnappings of Americans are common or weekend trips can be cancelled because of political unrest. Money isn't as important to everyone as it is to you. Being unhappy for three years is a HUGE cost to pay. You don't get that time back.

Get off your high horse.

FSO here. I can't stand the people who join the FS and then bend the rules to:
1. Do one overseas assignment then spend 8 years in DC and then another overseas assignment and another 8 years in DC. If you want to stay in DC, why join the FS?
2. Not fully understand and accept the concept of "worldwide availability."
3. Find ways to avoid "fair share" bidding or
4. Use some excuse, education, health, etc. to only get assigned to developed country posts snd then complain about limited promotion. Everyone who is FS can do hardship postings. You might have to take an unaccompanied assignment or two, put your kids in boarding school, etc.

FS is not a career for everyone. If you cannot or will not accept "worldwide availability" and "needs of the service," then perhaps you need another career choice.

Oh please. We're told that and then you see colleagues never step foot outside of Europe and still move up the ladder. Meanwhile, I have colleagues here who get passed over for everything they apply for after being told this particular "hardship" would enable them to get a cushier spot next. I personally have little desire to do EUR and would prefer assignments in South America and I make no apologies about it. I value my life within AND outside of the FS. If I died tomorrow, they'd fill my seat just as fast. I love my job, but if my family wasn't happy, they take precedence because that is my legacy and what I value most. If you're career comes first, then more power to you. I was close to sending my little girl back to the States because the schools here suck so terribly. We fortunately found another option, by the grace of God. My post is largely unaccompanied, because it's a long way from being family friendly. I've seen teenagers absolutely miserable and struggling in school, kids dealing with racial slurs and comments from educators at school, etc. I was so excited recently because a family with kids my child's age moved here only to find out this week that the spouse and kids (good-natured, friendly people) have left post because of the current conditions. It can't always just be that people are unappreciative. Some places are just not family friendly and FSOs should absolutely factor in quality of life if their families are important to them. If living apart from your family for years at a time works for you, have at it. Again, I love where we live now, but it took a lot of work and I would not take a similar assignment again and do this to my family again.

OP has taken one for the team more than once. I really hope that her spouse

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been married to my H for 18 years. Our last DD is ready to go off to college. We are a Foreign Service family, which has its ups and downs. I feel most of the downs are on me - unaccompanied assignments, assignments to s**tholes, etc. In any case, we are negotiating about our next and potentially final assignment before H is eligible to retire. DH is pushing to take one last s**hole assignment because the money is good - 25% post differential, 25% danger pay and 15% service need differential. The last is a lump sum payment paid of H completes a full three year assignment at post. H's argument is that the money is simply way too good to pass up. At his salary level, this means his base salary of $130K plus the above differentials for a total annual gross of $195K. The service need differential would be a lump sum $55,500 at the end of three years. With last DD off to college, he argues this is a way for him to meet all her college expenses and not have to borrow a dime. He will make her borrow a token amount just to have skin in the game.

However, due to the negatives I mention above, I am deathly opposed. I am tired of all the moving around, putting up with crap in the Third World, etc. I feel I deserve some relaxing time in some place like Paris or Geneva. H is not opposed to this, but wants to put the more hardship position among his top three. Not only for the money, but because he says the job is better than the others that are available.

I realize it is only three more years, and then we can start getting out. I am just not sure I can handle it another three.

You need to have a serious career and life talk with your husband. You say he has been offered a DCM post, and yet you seem to be assuming that he will retire in 3 years as soon as he is "eligible". This makes no sense to me. If it were me, and I had a chance at a DCM post, I would most certainly NOT be thinking of retirement in 3 years unless I was already near the mandatory retirement age of 65. I would want time to see if I could get a subsequent DCM posting in a better location or rise above DCM.

Also, I don't understand YOUR thinking about the hardship of the move. This sounds like the first post you will move to without kids, which is a significant difference. You don't have nearly so much to move (if you don't want to), you can enjoy the post without having to worry about kid issues like schooling and you will be able to take more time off for travel (with or without husband). The pay bump would even allow you to travel back and forth to the US (or somewhere else) pretty frequently.

Frankly, the post danger pay and hardship differential are a GREAT benefit. Many of the posts with the 25/25 danger/hardship you mention aren't that bad (i.e. they're not as dangerous as Iraq or Afghanistan) and the restriction lies mostly in potential freedom of movement restrictions (curfew, limited free range, potential for quick political deterioration, or potential criminal exposure, etc.) Most of us who work overseas love to get a 50% pay bump! Not having to borrow (parents or child) is a HUGE benefit for college and retirement. You won't be paying of her loans in your retirement, and she will have the freedom to choose an internship or career without worrying about paying back loans. My parents did that for me, and I am eternally grateful as it allowed me to seize unique opportunities I couldn't have otherwise afforded.

Honestly, you have a bad attitude for a foreign service wife. I'm a little embarrassed to hear anyone representing the USG overseas refer to the place of assignment as a "s**t-hole". I have worked in some "terrible" places, and what has always been true is that local people are lovely, our style of life is often more than we could dream of in the US (large homes, cars and extensive household help or an on-post cocoon), hardships are minimized to the maximum extent possible, and life and politics are fascinating in these posts. There are often amazing R&R locales nearby (your husband mentions great beaches). With the advent of the internet, we can stay far more connected to friends and family while we are away. Overseas postings are what you make them, and you sound like you are not interested in making life interesting, which is a YOU problem, not a posting or Foreign Service problem.

See, here is the thing. OP does not represent the USG. Her husband does. She is just a spouse.

Anonymous wrote:Oh please, PP. I'm a FSO and different strokes for different folks. I know folks who LOVE to stay in Africa while others opt to stay primarily in EUR. Hardship posts are rough if you're the type like me who love the city life, public transportation, Western convenience, etc. I'm in a hardship post now and while I love it, I had to work hard to make it work. I decided that I'm done with anymore posts requiring that my family take malaria pills or where kidnappings of Americans are common or weekend trips can be cancelled because of political unrest. Money isn't as important to everyone as it is to you. Being unhappy for three years is a HUGE cost to pay. You don't get that time back.

Get off your high horse.

FSO here. I can't stand the people who join the FS and then bend the rules to:
1. Do one overseas assignment then spend 8 years in DC and then another overseas assignment and another 8 years in DC. If you want to stay in DC, why join the FS?
2. Not fully understand and accept the concept of "worldwide availability."
3. Find ways to avoid "fair share" bidding or
4. Use some excuse, education, health, etc. to only get assigned to developed country posts snd then complain about limited promotion. Everyone who is FS can do hardship postings. You might have to take an unaccompanied assignment or two, put your kids in boarding school, etc.

FS is not a career for everyone. If you cannot or will not accept "worldwide availability" and "needs of the service," then perhaps you need another career choice.

Anonymous wrote:Oh please, PP. I'm a FSO and different strokes for different folks. I know folks who LOVE to stay in Africa while others opt to stay primarily in EUR. Hardship posts are rough if you're the type like me who love the city life, public transportation, Western convenience, etc. I'm in a hardship post now and while I love it, I had to work hard to make it work. I decided that I'm done with anymore posts requiring that my family take malaria pills or where kidnappings of Americans are common or weekend trips can be cancelled because of political unrest. Money isn't as important to everyone as it is to you. Being unhappy for three years is a HUGE cost to pay. You don't get that time back.

Get off your high horse.

+1

Oh please, PP. I'm a FSO and different strokes for different folks. I know folks who LOVE to stay in Africa while others opt to stay primarily in EUR. Hardship posts are rough if you're the type like me who love the city life, public transportation, Western convenience, etc. I'm in a hardship post now and while I love it, I had to work hard to make it work. I decided that I'm done with anymore posts requiring that my family take malaria pills or where kidnappings of Americans are common or weekend trips can be cancelled because of political unrest. Money isn't as important to everyone as it is to you. Being unhappy for three years is a HUGE cost to pay. You don't get that time back.

Get off your high horse.

Anonymous wrote:I have been married to my H for 18 years. Our last DD is ready to go off to college. We are a Foreign Service family, which has its ups and downs. I feel most of the downs are on me - unaccompanied assignments, assignments to s**tholes, etc. In any case, we are negotiating about our next and potentially final assignment before H is eligible to retire. DH is pushing to take one last s**hole assignment because the money is good - 25% post differential, 25% danger pay and 15% service need differential. The last is a lump sum payment paid of H completes a full three year assignment at post. H's argument is that the money is simply way too good to pass up. At his salary level, this means his base salary of $130K plus the above differentials for a total annual gross of $195K. The service need differential would be a lump sum $55,500 at the end of three years. With last DD off to college, he argues this is a way for him to meet all her college expenses and not have to borrow a dime. He will make her borrow a token amount just to have skin in the game.

However, due to the negatives I mention above, I am deathly opposed. I am tired of all the moving around, putting up with crap in the Third World, etc. I feel I deserve some relaxing time in some place like Paris or Geneva. H is not opposed to this, but wants to put the more hardship position among his top three. Not only for the money, but because he says the job is better than the others that are available.

I realize it is only three more years, and then we can start getting out. I am just not sure I can handle it another three.

You need to have a serious career and life talk with your husband. You say he has been offered a DCM post, and yet you seem to be assuming that he will retire in 3 years as soon as he is "eligible". This makes no sense to me. If it were me, and I had a chance at a DCM post, I would most certainly NOT be thinking of retirement in 3 years unless I was already near the mandatory retirement age of 65. I would want time to see if I could get a subsequent DCM posting in a better location or rise above DCM.

Also, I don't understand YOUR thinking about the hardship of the move. This sounds like the first post you will move to without kids, which is a significant difference. You don't have nearly so much to move (if you don't want to), you can enjoy the post without having to worry about kid issues like schooling and you will be able to take more time off for travel (with or without husband). The pay bump would even allow you to travel back and forth to the US (or somewhere else) pretty frequently.

Frankly, the post danger pay and hardship differential are a GREAT benefit. Many of the posts with the 25/25 danger/hardship you mention aren't that bad (i.e. they're not as dangerous as Iraq or Afghanistan) and the restriction lies mostly in potential freedom of movement restrictions (curfew, limited free range, potential for quick political deterioration, or potential criminal exposure, etc.) Most of us who work overseas love to get a 50% pay bump! Not having to borrow (parents or child) is a HUGE benefit for college and retirement. You won't be paying of her loans in your retirement, and she will have the freedom to choose an internship or career without worrying about paying back loans. My parents did that for me, and I am eternally grateful as it allowed me to seize unique opportunities I couldn't have otherwise afforded.

Honestly, you have a bad attitude for a foreign service wife. I'm a little embarrassed to hear anyone representing the USG overseas refer to the place of assignment as a "s**t-hole". I have worked in some "terrible" places, and what has always been true is that local people are lovely, our style of life is often more than we could dream of in the US (large homes, cars and extensive household help or an on-post cocoon), hardships are minimized to the maximum extent possible, and life and politics are fascinating in these posts. There are often amazing R&R locales nearby (your husband mentions great beaches). With the advent of the internet, we can stay far more connected to friends and family while we are away. Overseas postings are what you make them, and you sound like you are not interested in making life interesting, which is a YOU problem, not a posting or Foreign Service problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he agrees to the cushy final assignment, will you agree to go back to work full time after he retires to help with your DD's tuition/loans and make up for his lost pay?

Jeezus, you are an idiot.

Why is this person an idiot? I seem to remember the thread where the DW wanted her husband to reimburse her for lost wages during maternity leave. That is idiocy. I think the PP asked a valid and reasonable question.

Not foreign service, but a career military spouse.

I was able to work for my spouse's first two assignments in my field.

After that, his career dictated that we moved every 10 months-2 years.

Very few "career" jobs want to hire someone with that track record.

Now, at the end of my husband's career, I no longer have the education or more importantly, job experience to have any type of meaningful employment that will support our family at the level that he can. Simply put, his earning power far exceeds anything I can bring in, even under the best of circumstances.

I am sure OP is in a similar boat as many military spouses.

This +1. Also I would imagine that in the developing country assignment there would be a greater community amoung expats and lower language barrier since the locals would prob all want to speak English. Paris is a great city to visit but wouldn't want to live there bc I don't speak French.

You don't deserve shit, do it for you kids

Can you take a month's vacation in Paris or somewhere before going to your third world country? Because not having to deal with college loans is HUGE!

Maybe you guys all grew up in the Cold War era, but I work in international development (although not a Foreign Service Officer) and seriously no one says first world and third world anymore. It's frankly a little offensive. Developed/developing is more frequently used, although some people have issues with that as well.

It's hard to say without knowing the exact locations, but I travel regularly to parts of Africa for my job and I would move to many of them in a heartbeat despite the risks if I were on an FSO salary with hazard pay. You can afford a life in some of these countries that only the actual rich people can dream about in the US, not to mention increased opportunities to travel and meet new people. Living in Paris would be great too, but I'm not sure how cushy it would be given the cost of living there. Besides, If you're posted in Africa you can get to Europe easily for vacation.