OP here. Have been meaning to revisit this thread again, to say thank you again for all your input and to update you on what happened. In the end, we decided not to go. DH just decided BIL's recent behavior to that point was too unpredictable. No one in DH's family will tell us how his Christmas visit was. Don't know why, but they won't. In the months since, judging only my DH's conversations with him and his increasingly odd FB posts, it was the right call for us not to go. He has been posting strange videos; a month ago, he posted an 8-minute rant about people who want him to "change." He screamed and yelled, ripped off his shirt, said F you a hundred times. It was frightening. He just lost it. The next day, he posted another one, in which he was rosy and sunny and just musing about life. I encouraged DH to show them to his parents, which he did. No response. I fear that in a couple years' time he will be living on the streets or be the victim of violence or victimized in some other way. I am family but an outsider--I feel like I can see what is coming but there is just so much I can do. Thanks for listening--it's an ongoing issue.

OP, I had a schizophrenic uncle. Your description of your BIL reminds me a bit of his good side...he had a generous spirit and a pure heart. Your kids will be a bit freaked out, but this is a great time to get them prepared. I think you will find that they adapt much more easily to the idea of a brain illness than adults do. Just say, "Uncle Joey's brain gets sick from time to time, just like some parts of you get sick. You know how when you have a col, weird stuff comes out of your nose? Or when your stomach is sick, you can throw up? Well, when Uncle Joey's brain is sick, he says weird things. Sometimes they are funny and sometimes they are scary. But that is just the sickness coming out. Sometimes it's better for us to stay away if his brain isn't well. When he takes his medicine and his brain feels better, he won't say so many strange things. We will love him and be nice to him just as we would if his tummy was sick and he threw up, ok?"

Kids will get it. It's a good opportunity for empathy and kindness. And the "his brain is feeling sick" line will help if you need to make a quick hotel exit.

OP here again. Thank you for your support and kind words, PPs. Thanks additionally to the mental health professional for the book recommendation. I will check it out and show to DH. We are still digesting this. It will be an enormous challenge to bring BIL to understanding what is happening and for us to know our place in this. He believes he has found "his path" and clings to this reality. I understand why--if he has been suffering for years, and he has finally found something that makes him feel even marginally better (an amalgam of various eastern religions/new agey-ness/the metaphysical), why would he want to give that up? DH and I have been trying to identify his triggers--what makes him very agitated--so that we can bring his sisters and parents on board for the holidays to say, "hey, let's all try to avoid confronting or diminishing or talking him out of his admittedly wild assertions" (for instance, he believes he can heal people and bend hard metal objects with his mind; he also believes he can remove flouride from water by touching the glass and meditating) because that will do nothing but irritate him. THat is our challenge in the next month--to get all on same page. I feel like I have taken control of this even though it is DH's family--it's a strange feeling.

Thank you again for the support. I could not have gotten to this point without it.

OP-18:59 is beautifully said. Your BIL is lucky to have you. Do stick with the hotel plan.

I meant to add this link. A good book to read for families that have a relative with a thought disorder.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Family-Guide-Schizophrenia/dp/1593851804/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

As someone who works in mental health and who posted a couple times in this thread, I just want to say kudos to you OP for your open mindedness and willingness to act (and your DH as well). It isn't easy to shift your thinking about how you see someone, and to follow up with hard conversations. Give your in-laws a bit of time to digest it. Hopefully they come around too. They have been living it on a closer basis, so it may be much harder for them to step back and see it differently.

It may be a huge relief to your BIL as well that there is an explanation for how he feels and acts and that there is less frustration and more understanding in the family. That alone and the changed perspective. I hope this leads to him getting a proper assessment, diagnosis and treatment and that he is on his way to recovery. I am sure he too would love to regain more functioning in his life.

Your BIL is fortunate to have you and your DH in his life. NAMI is a great resource for families of people with mental illnesses.

I don't know enough to do a "diagnosis" but really it doesn't matter.

If you go, you MUST stay in a hotel. You MUST be in control of your environment, so you can leave when you want, and be able to relax and not worry about your kids.

I think some PPs had some great suggestions on how to talk to your MIL, but bottom line is, it's better to get it done--get yourself to the hotel--and less important on HOW you make that happen. So if you have to lie through your teeth to make that hotel happen, do it. Say you've got some sort of sleeping disorder and must stay in a hotel; say you've developed an allergy to ___ (cats, if they have a cat and you don't)…say you have a back injury and the hotel has a special bed…or they have a whirlpool and you need that…say your kid is waking up at night and it wakes everyone up so you want to be in a hotel…say you're sick…find the lie that works for you and get the hell out of that house!

OP here. Thank you to all who weighed in. I cannot tell how how much this helped, honestly. My post here set in motion a series of conversations, and research and decisions. We have spoken at length with a professional, providing background, information, and details of BIL's behavior to get more feedback. We heard the same from her: this is mental illness and needs to begin treatment. DH called his brother this week and told me later that within 5 minutes he was convinced this is indeed mental illness. We have both since been able to let go of whatever frustration and anger we had toward BIL--we are convinced this is not his choice and that he needs all of our help and support, however we can give it. In the conversation with DH, BIL told DH of several recent situations in which he was either an aggressor a potential victim. In one instance the police were called; in another he was let go from his temporary job for frightening the other employees. DH has spoke with his parents--that is a whole other issue. They still maintain he has some responsibility for his behavior, but in the same convo they also admitted they too believe he is ill. So I don't know. We believe the first step is to find out what his diagnosis for getting the SSI was; MIL says he is getting SSI for "mood swings" and ADD--can one get SSI for that? Is it possible he was diagnosed with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder but never told his parents? Clearly anything is possible. Now my fear has more shifted to a fear FOR him instead of FROM him. I see him as more vulnerable than anything else and I am so scared he will wind up on the street and we will lose track of him.

As for Christmas: we are getting a hotel room for a couple of nights and saying it is for space reasons. I have compassion for BIL and am going to do my best with the situation--he is a good person with a pure heart--he deserves my understanding and love, and I will do my best to provide it while still being on alert and prioritizing our safety. If I sense an explosion coming--they happen, esp between BIL and his sister (SIL), I will remove myself and children from the house without word or apology. But my plan is to go into it trying to balance it all. I am praying for strength and wisdom, I can tell you that.

Thanks again to you all. You have helped very much.

If 2.5 hrs away, I'd plan for a two-day, one-overnight (or 3-day, 2 overnight) trip and plan to stay in a hotel. Whether or not you are physically at risk, it will make you feel a lot better to have an escape hatch. [Is it possible that any of the other relatives would be interested in booking at the same hotel?]

Also, even if the kids are physically at risk, there's a limit to how much they should be exposed to/have to endure. It's also not good if the whole visit is defined by BIL's situation.

Been there, done that. Wasn't willing to spend a holiday with family for a VERY long time thereafter, and even now (and even with the troubled relative out of the picture) I keep it to a bare minimum.

HAS a debilitating diagnosis, sorry.

It's hard to qualify for SSI. If he receives it, he definitely gas a debilitating psychiatric diagnosis - it's not just his personality.

Anonymous wrote:I think we need to clarify before this thread steers in stereotyped perceptions of mental illness, that being schizophrenic does not make you violent. People with mental illness are much more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. They are less likely to be violent than the general population. can someone with a mental illness be aggressive - absolutely, but being mentally ill doesn't make you violent.

Bizarre and psychotic behavior can often make people seem quite aggressive as they lose their inhibitions and are unpredictable. They may act aggressively if they are in an acute psychosis and dealing with persecutory or paranoid delusions and typically that aggression is perceived by them as protective (protecting you or others), or preventing further harm. They may also have much less frustration tolerance and increased mood volatility which can also come across as aggression.

What you have seen to date OP is likely what you will see this Christmas as well.

Thank you.

I think we need to clarify before this thread steers in stereotyped perceptions of mental illness, that being schizophrenic does not make you violent. People with mental illness are much more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. They are less likely to be violent than the general population. can someone with a mental illness be aggressive - absolutely, but being mentally ill doesn't make you violent.

Bizarre and psychotic behavior can often make people seem quite aggressive as they lose their inhibitions and are unpredictable. They may act aggressively if they are in an acute psychosis and dealing with persecutory or paranoid delusions and typically that aggression is perceived by them as protective (protecting you or others), or preventing further harm. They may also have much less frustration tolerance and increased mood volatility which can also come across as aggression.

What you have seen to date OP is likely what you will see this Christmas as well.

An unmedicated adult w/schizophrenia could possibly be a danger to your children so if you feel that is the case I would not risk it. Yes MIL/etc may be upset and sad but you need to protect your kids first. If the guy scares you to the point where you want to lock yourself and the kids in a room there's your answer IMO.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am shaking right now. I have been reading about various diagnoses and just finished reading about schizoaffective disorder. THIS is him.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/schizoaffective-disorder/DS00866/DSECTION=symptoms

He demonstrates nearly all of these symptoms. I had never heard of this disorder before. Thank you so much for sharing this information with me--I am eager to show this to DH. My heart is breaking right now thinking of all the years he had been on ADHD drugs--yes, he was on ritalin and other attention drugs for years before rejecting them. I don't know if they were wrong for him but it seems like he needed SO MUCH MORE than this. Poor baby. I am going to cry thinking of how he must have been struggling for more than a decade. I have no idea what to do.

OP - I had a neighbor growing you who went through something similar. He was diagnosed ADHD, asperger's and it seemed like very couple of years something else. Now that he is early 20's it is clear that it is bipolar and schizophrenia. His parents have tried for years growing up to get him the help they felt he needed. But now that he is an adult there is not much they can do. He has at various points been homeless. But unless he is willing to take meds, his parents (now divorced) are united that he can not be around his younger brothers for fear that he may hurt them. So they wait, hope and help when they can. It is heartbreaking to watch.