And beyond the rages, gas-lighting and crazy-making, am I also supposed to accept the serial infidelity as well?

Anonymous wrote:You sound very upset.

First, you spouse may or may not have BPD. You can't diagnose her. But that doesn't mean she doesn't need help.

I am in treatment for BPD. I have made a lot of strides. I used to have moderate BPD. Now I have mild BPD, and sometimes I even have good days. But, when triggered, I can have bad days, too.

DBT does help, but it requires commitment and work. You attend a college-like class once a week. It's not at all like group therapy, where everybody shares their feelings. There are materials; you learn and practice specific skills, and you do homework. And once a week, you meet individually with your DBT therapist. DBT was developed by Marsha Linehan, and her story is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/health/23lives.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0. The video is particularly compelling. Classes are also offered for family members of those enrolled in DBT.

I cannot really relate to people who refuse help. I am sort of like Woody Allen when it comes to therapy. However, from what I understand, most people with BPD refuse to go to treatment because they are too ashamed.

If your wife will not seek any help and you've reached a point of intolerability, maybe you do need to leave. I have a suggestion, though. And I've repeated it above. And though I often do not like when people preach to me about books, I will do it again. I started to notice that one of my children seemed to be very emotional, and I became concerned about the possibility that my child could develop BPD. I started using some of the techniques I learned in DBT with my child, but it wasn't until I read When Hope Is Not Enough by Bon Dobbs that I really was able to help my child. He gives you very specific tools that you can use to help your family member. He is a lay person, and he does not have the disorder himself. But his wife and one of his children do, and that is the basis for his experience. The book is self-published and it could have used a proofreading, but I think it is the best book out there if you truly want to stay in a relationship with a BPD family member.l

Since you seem very upset, you may not want to wait for the book. You can go to www.anythingtostopthepain.com and find there a link to his on-line support group for those with a loved one who has BPD. These people are AWESOME. They will help you.

She was diagnosed 10 years ago by a psychiatrist. She started out wanting to be better and then quit and has basically spiraled out of control.

It's on the right-hand side of the page: ATSTP Google Group.

You sound very upset.

First, you spouse may or may not have BPD. You can't diagnose her. But that doesn't mean she doesn't need help.

I am in treatment for BPD. I have made a lot of strides. I used to have moderate BPD. Now I have mild BPD, and sometimes I even have good days. But, when triggered, I can have bad days, too.

DBT does help, but it requires commitment and work. You attend a college-like class once a week. It's not at all like group therapy, where everybody shares their feelings. There are materials; you learn and practice specific skills, and you do homework. And once a week, you meet individually with your DBT therapist. DBT was developed by Marsha Linehan, and her story is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/health/23lives.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0. The video is particularly compelling. Classes are also offered for family members of those enrolled in DBT.

I cannot really relate to people who refuse help. I am sort of like Woody Allen when it comes to therapy. However, from what I understand, most people with BPD refuse to go to treatment because they are too ashamed.

If your wife will not seek any help and you've reached a point of intolerability, maybe you do need to leave. I have a suggestion, though. And I've repeated it above. And though I often do not like when people preach to me about books, I will do it again. I started to notice that one of my children seemed to be very emotional, and I became concerned about the possibility that my child could develop BPD. I started using some of the techniques I learned in DBT with my child, but it wasn't until I read When Hope Is Not Enough by Bon Dobbs that I really was able to help my child. He gives you very specific tools that you can use to help your family member. He is a lay person, and he does not have the disorder himself. But his wife and one of his children do, and that is the basis for his experience. The book is self-published and it could have used a proofreading, but I think it is the best book out there if you truly want to stay in a relationship with a BPD family member.

Since you seem very upset, you may not want to wait for the book. You can go to www.anythingtostopthepain.com and find there a link to his on-line support group for those with a loved one who has BPD. These people are AWESOME. They will help you.

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry I said that to you. It's OK that you cussed me out. A lot of people say things like "If it's BPD run. They'll never change." I see it all the time right here on this board.

And it's just not true. People with BPD are unfairly stigmatized and there a now effective treatments. But it is no picnic.

I strongly advise you to get away from this therapist. As I said, BPD is the new black these days. Therapists used to refuse to treat Borderlines -- it was just a label they slapped on to any patient that was oppositional, or did not get "cured" quick enough. Now that there are recognized treatments, every therapist wants a piece of the action. I think you are perceptive in stating that this therapist is "looking" for BPD. She's on the hunt.

And speaking of thyroid glands, I had a situation that fits perfectly into falling into the net of someone with a predisposition to go looking for things. I went for a physical once, and was asked if I wanted my thryroid checked. I said sure. The next thing I knew I was being called back again and again for more and more bloodwork and told I probably had a tumor in my pituiatary gland -- minor brain surgery, no big deal. I was hysterical An endocrinologist finally put an end to the whole thing. I was taking a vitamin that caused the test to register incorrectly. The point being that I never needed the test and got caught in this guy's net because he liked to look for thyroid problems uninvited.

This is why I recommend Wake Kendall. They are the pioneers of bringing DBT to DC. They are not lacking for business, and therefore have no motivation to diagnose someone as Borderline if they are not. And they know how to diagnose correctly. They are experts. It also could be that you husband does not have BPD, but could benefit from DBT anyway. DBT is not exclusively a treatment for BPD. It can help with anxiety and depression as well.

I am again sorry that I allowed other the prejudice of others to prejudice me against you. I hope you will accept my apology.

Finally, the questions you are asking are not easy to answer. BPD is complicated. But I will leave you with this very quick video which I think actually sums it up brilliantly, and it's actually very funny. Have a nice weekend.

18:02 - I am not hte OP. Are you a non-BPD in a relationship with a BPD or are you a BPD? I am married now close to 17 years to a BPD, and I can tell you it is a living hell. Just because my BPD spouse lives in a world of anxiety, fear, depression, etc. does not give her a pass to behave as she does. I would really like her to understand this, but she does not. She needs to accept responsibility for herself and for her actions. I would love for her to go to therapy and try to heal, but she is not going to do this. To go to therapy in her mind is to accept there is something wrong with her. In her mind, there is nothing wrong. It it the world around her that is wrong. I feel really sorry for her, but I feel I am at a point where if she will not accept therapy, I need to walk. I have know this, perhaps, for some time, but her irrationality in the face of a current family crisis has just hammered it home. If I cannot rely on her, as my spouse, to stand by me in a very important hour of need for the sake of our family and not have it all about her feelings, I need to go.

I sometimes wonder if BPD's, like alcoholics or drug addicts, need to hit bottom and where that bottom is. BPD spouse has already been arrested and jailed, had restraining orders taken out on her, but none of this seems to make her consider that her actions are the source of all her problems.

OP here. 18:02. Thank you for understanding and I completely accept your apology of course. What a difficult thing this whole situation is. All of it. I really thank you for your insight and I will watch, when noone else is lookng over my shoulder, the videos you included.

Have a great weekend too!

OP, I think 10:46 had good insights for you to consider.

I know firsthand how hard it is to live with a partner with mental illness. Good luck.

I'm sorry I said that to you. It's OK that you cussed me out. A lot of people say things like "If it's BPD run. They'll never change." I see it all the time right here on this board.

And it's just not true. People with BPD are unfairly stigmatized and there a now effective treatments. But it is no picnic.

I strongly advise you to get away from this therapist. As I said, BPD is the new black these days. Therapists used to refuse to treat Borderlines -- it was just a label they slapped on to any patient that was oppositional, or did not get "cured" quick enough. Now that there are recognized treatments, every therapist wants a piece of the action. I think you are perceptive in stating that this therapist is "looking" for BPD. She's on the hunt.

And speaking of thyroid glands, I had a situation that fits perfectly into falling into the net of someone with a predisposition to go looking for things. I went for a physical once, and was asked if I wanted my thryroid checked. I said sure. The next thing I knew I was being called back again and again for more and more bloodwork and told I probably had a tumor in my pituiatary gland -- minor brain surgery, no big deal. I was hysterical An endocrinologist finally put an end to the whole thing. I was taking a vitamin that caused the test to register incorrectly. The point being that I never needed the test and got caught in this guy's net because he liked to look for thyroid problems uninvited.

This is why I recommend Wake Kendall. They are the pioneers of bringing DBT to DC. They are not lacking for business, and therefore have no motivation to diagnose someone as Borderline if they are not. And they know how to diagnose correctly. They are experts. It also could be that you husband does not have BPD, but could benefit from DBT anyway. DBT is not exclusively a treatment for BPD. It can help with anxiety and depression as well.

I am again sorry that I allowed other the prejudice of others to prejudice me against you. I hope you will accept my apology.

Finally, the questions you are asking are not easy to answer. BPD is complicated. But I will leave you with this very quick video which I think actually sums it up brilliantly, and it's actually very funny. Have a nice weekend.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I strongly advise you to ditch the therapist opining that "thoughts" are at the root of BPD. That she does not know that emotions come before the thoughts is a huge red flag.

Call the Wake Kendall Group. They are the experts in the area. They offer DBT. It doesn't get any better than them.

www.wakekendall.com

Good luck to you.

OP here. THanks for everyone who gave good advice. Therapist did not per se talk about thoughts being at the root of BPD., and most certainly she never said, nor did I ever say, that emotions are not coming through. The whole essence of the problem is MAJOR emotion coming through, a problem with regulation, but ALSO some scary thoughts like people cant be trusted (including me), that its because I dont love him that he gets angry, then saying things he "does not mean", yet never understanding WHY he says things he does not mean, or does things he does not understand.
Its like there is no center from which he thinks and acts. Its almost like its done on the fly, with no recall of previously made assertions.

Thank you for the referral.

And I dont drink anyone's koolaid. Including that therapist- for ME the big red flag, upon reflection, was that everytime I said "No, that one DEFINITELY does NOT fit" she looked like I might not know what I am talking about. Skeptical. And there are a few that just did not, kind of important ones. like Idealizing friends and then ditching them. DH has husbands for decades, as do I. So no, that did not fit.

It reminds me of the time a gyn looked at my neck and diagnosed a possible thyroid problem, despite me having regular tests and exams of same. He was oddly insistent that he had many times diagnosed thyroid problems noone else saw. Well, 20 years later and my thryroid is still fine. POint being, this guy had a "thing" about thyroids, and I began to , to use a word, opine that she has a "thing" about bordeline personality disorder. Like she sees if because she wants to, or maybe she has had some luck with it in the past.

Also she talks WAY to much- interrupting frequently. At one point I just said "He doesnt do that, or say things like that" and she said "but its the thoughts" to which I said "We can only understand a persons thoughts based on their actinos and words. What other criterion can we use?"

So in that sense maybe she was getting at thoughts in a way that is amiss, but even worse, she dismissed that thoughts could be in any way known from actions or things said. Its at least a place to start!!

Thanks again. If you were one I cussed out, I hope you can forgive me- I for not wanting to be told by anyone that I was looking HERE (or ANYwhere) for a way out. Ive been through hell. I have lost my best friend. And I have stayed to try to get him to come back. I am devastated and I miss him terribly. But he is not there anymore, and I dont know what to do. I know I cant bring him back. Yet in some ways I may be his only hope. I jsut cant tell anymore.

Anonymous wrote:I think she's trying to say that she doesn't feel like doing the OP any favors. Who would?

Way to go. Make OP out to be the problem. Its clearly a super difficult situation. Dont recall OP asking for any favors but an answer to a question which I agree with other posters is best reached elsewhere.

OP, I strongly advise you to ditch the therapist opining that "thoughts" are at the root of BPD. That she does not know that emotions come before the thoughts is a huge red flag.

Call the Wake Kendall Group. They are the experts in the area. They offer DBT. It doesn't get any better than them.

www.wakekendall.com

Good luck to you.

I think she's trying to say that she doesn't feel like doing the OP any favors. Who would?

Anonymous wrote:

So, yeah, I think I will take the liberty of letting an arrogant prick who projects his/her situation on mine and makes an inaccurate and unfair character judgement that this is waht he is, and I think he can take a fuck you. Really, I think he can handle that. Thats what sometimes happen when you insult a person online. You might also take a moment to try to figure out why its so important to try to make judgements.

Still awaiting a proper response froma person with direct experience of being in my shoes

I have been in a similar situation, but I'm sorry, I don't want to get involved with you because you have been so angry and aggressive towards others.

Not sure how you could be "involved" in an anonymous forum. Sounds a little paranoid.

Have you considered he may have changed due a head injury? Has he had a concussion before? I have been reading a lot about folks changing after even mild concussions.

So, yeah, I think I will take the liberty of letting an arrogant prick who projects his/her situation on mine and makes an inaccurate and unfair character judgement that this is waht he is, and I think he can take a fuck you. Really, I think he can handle that. Thats what sometimes happen when you insult a person online. You might also take a moment to try to figure out why its so important to try to make judgements.

Still awaiting a proper response froma person with direct experience of being in my shoes

I have been in a similar situation, but I'm sorry, I don't want to get involved with you because you have been so angry and aggressive towards others.