Anonymous
Post 10/11/2013 11:06     Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
You are disgusting. If you knew anything about what happens when a parent commits suicide, you would know that what is most damaging to the child is living without the parent, and knowing that the parent committed suicide. This increases the chances of the child committing suicide, as they feel as though their parent has sort of made it "acceptable". Yet, when you advocate that suicidal people who cry for help are making "threats" and are "selfish" and should be served with restraining orders, you take away the only thing left that can keep them alive, which is the support of others. They have exhausted every tool in their belt. And you want them to just suck it up. That is a recipe for suicide. Your ignorance, your callousness, your righteous judgment against people in unimaginable pain just contributes to more pain.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2013 06:17     Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:I am not angry. I am educated. It is unfortunate that the child was traumatized, but children are resilient. Life is not a suffering contest. I am sure both the child and the man who put the gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger were in great pain. I do not choose to compare them. For you to edify a man in enough pain to do that speaks volumes about you. And the ad hominem attack on me is a nice touch.


Wow! Don't procreate please. That is the most callous shit I've ever heard. "Unfortunately a child was traumatized". Yikes. Have you been suicidal? If so, Thanks for handily proving that suicidal people are selfish horrible people who love no one but themselves. Anyone who claims to be a parent who discards a child's suffering like that should be sterilized.

People who threaten suicide are abusive and the OP's friend should get out ASAP.
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2013 05:13     Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
OP, you sound like a very caring and concerned friend to be asking us what she should do. This is a very complicated situation and it worries me that there are children involved.

While I think theoretically letting his family know about his feelings would be ideal, I am not sure if that is a good idea because I am not sure of the family dynamics between him + his family.

I do not think your friend should stay w/this man because she is afraid he will take his own life. To do so, would be a very unhealthy reason to stay w/him that would only backfire somehow.

If he won't leave the home, then by all means, she should leave w/the children.

Also, for the children's protection, I strongly advise and encourage she seek social services and get some help so her children won't be left alone w/their Father until he gets help for himself.

Good luck.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 17:18     Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would have preferred that he spend 2 min thinking about someone other than himself and his own pain to prevent the pain and suffering he has caused my sister and nephew. At least his pain is over. Theirs is going to be a long, long battle. My nephew had nightmares for years dreaming about coming across his father's dead body. But no, that's good. I'm glad my BIL isn't in pain anymore.


You do not get it. Someone who puts a loaded gun into his or her mouth does not think about the pain of others. They are wholly consumed by their own. Show some humanity.

Now we're picking on the suicidal! What next?


No, you "do not get it." This isn't picking on the suicidal. We all (if we're healthy) hope that suicidal people change their minds and choose a different course. If they decide to go with suicide? Yes, it's selfish and wrong to commit suicide to in a way that harms other people. The suicidal don't suddenly become oblivious to the harm they cause when they steer their cars into oncoming traffic, or force their loved ones to discover their dead bodies. Their sadness doesn't give them a pass to disregard the pain of others.


Well, suicidal people do not change their minds and choose a different course by keeping all of their pain to themselves and not talking about it. Yet, when they do, they are "threatening suicide".


you don't need to post by typing text at the bottom of someone else's. if you're not going to respond to a post, then you can type in a new entry.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 17:16     Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:I am not angry. I am educated. It is unfortunate that the child was traumatized, but children are resilient. Life is not a suffering contest. I am sure both the child and the man who put the gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger were in great pain. I do not choose to compare them. For you to edify a man in enough pain to do that speaks volumes about you. And the ad hominem attack on me is a nice touch.


"Unfortunate that a child was traumatized." You must be in PR. That's the most outrageously ignorant statement out there yet. Oh, wait. "But children are resilient." So, that's OK!! He'll get over it! (When clearly he hasn't.) You aren't educated. You are ignorant. I'd love to see you talking to a child left behind and try this spin on them.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 17:07     Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would have preferred that he spend 2 min thinking about someone other than himself and his own pain to prevent the pain and suffering he has caused my sister and nephew. At least his pain is over. Theirs is going to be a long, long battle. My nephew had nightmares for years dreaming about coming across his father's dead body. But no, that's good. I'm glad my BIL isn't in pain anymore.


You do not get it. Someone who puts a loaded gun into his or her mouth does not think about the pain of others. They are wholly consumed by their own. Show some humanity.

Now we're picking on the suicidal! What next?


No, you "do not get it." This isn't picking on the suicidal. We all (if we're healthy) hope that suicidal people change their minds and choose a different course. If they decide to go with suicide? Yes, it's selfish and wrong to commit suicide to in a way that harms other people. The suicidal don't suddenly become oblivious to the harm they cause when they steer their cars into oncoming traffic, or force their loved ones to discover their dead bodies. Their sadness doesn't give them a pass to disregard the pain of others.


Well, suicidal people do not change their minds and choose a different course by keeping all of their pain to themselves and not talking about it. Yet, when they do, they are "threatening suicide".
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 17:05     Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
I am not angry. I am educated. It is unfortunate that the child was traumatized, but children are resilient. Life is not a suffering contest. I am sure both the child and the man who put the gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger were in great pain. I do not choose to compare them. For you to edify a man in enough pain to do that speaks volumes about you. And the ad hominem attack on me is a nice touch.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 17:04     Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would have preferred that he spend 2 min thinking about someone other than himself and his own pain to prevent the pain and suffering he has caused my sister and nephew. At least his pain is over. Theirs is going to be a long, long battle. My nephew had nightmares for years dreaming about coming across his father's dead body. But no, that's good. I'm glad my BIL isn't in pain anymore.


You do not get it. Someone who puts a loaded gun into his or her mouth does not think about the pain of others. They are wholly consumed by their own. Show some humanity.

Now we're picking on the suicidal! What next?


No, you "do not get it." This isn't picking on the suicidal. We all (if we're healthy) hope that suicidal people change their minds and choose a different course. If they decide to go with suicide? Yes, it's selfish and wrong to commit suicide to in a way that harms other people. The suicidal don't suddenly become oblivious to the harm they cause when they steer their cars into oncoming traffic, or force their loved ones to discover their dead bodies. Their sadness doesn't give them a pass to disregard the pain of others.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 16:50     Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:I was referring to 16:21. I think telling me to get off the thread is bullying. That means we disagree. It does not mean I am "unhinged".


Your anger isn't helping anyone, certainly not this OP and if anyone is bullying anyone it's you, arguing with someone about how her 8 year old nephew experienced the shock and trauma of finding his dad dead. What a tool you are.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 16:49     Subject: Re:leaving someone suicidal
I was referring to 16:21. I think telling me to get off the thread is bullying. That means we disagree. It does not mean I am "unhinged".
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 16:47     Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:16:15 poster here. I obviously don't know the guy, but my hunch is that he's not trying to threaten her with the implicit suicide remarks. What he wants to do is come out an say "I am afraid I am going to kill myself" but he is either too ashamed to admit it outright or is afraid if he says that, she will immediately leave him. So instead he's just tiptoing around it.

For what its worth, about 15 years ago, I was in a similar situation as this guy. My girlfriend forced me to get help, then promptly got the hell out of the relationship once I did. I've since recovered, become successful, and am happily married with a kid. I am both sorry for what I put my ex-girlfriend through and also appreciative that she stuck around long enough to get me help.

I certainly wouldn't blame your friend for leaving this guy once she gets him some help. I just think she should try to do that first as long as she does not think either her safety or the safety of her children are immediately at issue.


I am not going to be bullied by you into staying silent on an issue this important. I dislike the term "suicide threat". People make suicidal gestures; they plea for help.

Would you have preferred it go like this: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/bob_fords_post_patterns/39889158.html? I know you probably won't read anything that challenges your point of view, but maybe others will.

In a friend's garage, nice and neat, with no warning? No signs? No chance to be dissuaded?

His friends and family disagree: http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/2009/02/23/our-daily-dread-17/

How much they would have loved to have known. Perhaps, if he hadn't had so much pride, so much macho, he could have talked to somebody. Who knows? No one will now, ever.

So no, I'm sorry. But I don't think I'm showing inhumanity when I compare the pain of someone who commits suicide to the pain of someone who has to clean up the mess of a suicide. People who "threaten" suicide are asking for help. Calling 911, tape recording them, asking for restraining orders is not particularly helpful.


You are beyond unhinged. No one is bullying you.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 16:38     Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:16:15 poster here. I obviously don't know the guy, but my hunch is that he's not trying to threaten her with the implicit suicide remarks. What he wants to do is come out an say "I am afraid I am going to kill myself" but he is either too ashamed to admit it outright or is afraid if he says that, she will immediately leave him. So instead he's just tiptoing around it.

For what its worth, about 15 years ago, I was in a similar situation as this guy. My girlfriend forced me to get help, then promptly got the hell out of the relationship once I did. I've since recovered, become successful, and am happily married with a kid. I am both sorry for what I put my ex-girlfriend through and also appreciative that she stuck around long enough to get me help.

I certainly wouldn't blame your friend for leaving this guy once she gets him some help. I just think she should try to do that first as long as she does not think either her safety or the safety of her children are immediately at issue.


I am not going to be bullied by you into staying silent on an issue this important. I dislike the term "suicide threat". People make suicidal gestures; they plea for help.

Would you have preferred it go like this: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/bob_fords_post_patterns/39889158.html? I know you probably won't read anything that challenges your point of view, but maybe others will.

In a friend's garage, nice and neat, with no warning? No signs? No chance to be dissuaded?

His friends and family disagree: http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/2009/02/23/our-daily-dread-17/

How much they would have loved to have known. Perhaps, if he hadn't had so much pride, so much macho, he could have talked to somebody. Who knows? No one will now, ever.

So no, I'm sorry. But I don't think I'm showing inhumanity when I compare the pain of someone who commits suicide to the pain of someone who has to clean up the mess of a suicide. People who "threaten" suicide are asking for help. Calling 911, tape recording them, asking for restraining orders is not particularly helpful.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 16:31     Subject: leaving someone suicidal
16:15 poster here. I obviously don't know the guy, but my hunch is that he's not trying to threaten her with the implicit suicide remarks. What he wants to do is come out an say "I am afraid I am going to kill myself" but he is either too ashamed to admit it outright or is afraid if he says that, she will immediately leave him. So instead he's just tiptoing around it.

For what its worth, about 15 years ago, I was in a similar situation as this guy. My girlfriend forced me to get help, then promptly got the hell out of the relationship once I did. I've since recovered, become successful, and am happily married with a kid. I am both sorry for what I put my ex-girlfriend through and also appreciative that she stuck around long enough to get me help.

I certainly wouldn't blame your friend for leaving this guy once she gets him some help. I just think she should try to do that first as long as she does not think either her safety or the safety of her children are immediately at issue.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 16:21     Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would have preferred that he spend 2 min thinking about someone other than himself and his own pain to prevent the pain and suffering he has caused my sister and nephew. At least his pain is over. Theirs is going to be a long, long battle. My nephew had nightmares for years dreaming about coming across his father's dead body. But no, that's good. I'm glad my BIL isn't in pain anymore.


You do not get it. Someone who puts a loaded gun into his or her mouth does not think about the pain of others. They are wholly consumed by their own. Show some humanity.

Now we're picking on the suicidal! What next?


You might want to take your own advice. Are you seriously arguing with this woman over what her poor nephew has had to endure? An 8 year old boy? Back away from the thread, it's clearly too much for you to handle and is bringing up something for you. That's OK. Show some good judgment and stop arguing with someone who had to deal with the repercussions of suicide, which are as real as the struggles felt by the suicidal person.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2013 16:15     Subject: leaving someone suicidal
Anonymous wrote:OP here - I feel like people are missing the point that his threats are implicit, not explicit, and that since he has refused to get any help of any kind that he's not going to be willing to go to the hospital. I know she would consider admitting him against his will, is that an option if the threats have not been explicit? Finally, she's got two kids living in a house with a withdrawn, often angry, emotionally witholding father so she's got them to think about.


She could probably get the police to drive him to the hospital for a few hours for observation if she wanted. I'm not sure whether that would help or hurt. It seems like a question for a therapist.

I am not saying her concern about the kids living with a withdrawn, useless father is an illegitmate one; it certainly is not. I just think if they're in no immeidate danger she should try to push the treatment issue before abandoning him and possibly sending him spiraling out of control. I also agree with the poster who said that active bouts of suicidal thoughts are usually temporary. I understand that she has been dealing with his issues for far too long, but implicit threats of suicide isn't just "more of the same," it is something new and more serious than being distant.