Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have no interest in reading all the responses, but here is my response to your first paragraph (I said it out loud):

What the fuck!!!

Yeah, I love to curse. It's great. I have literally NEVER done it around my children (6 and 8). Never once. And if a "shit" or "damn" comes out of someone's mouth around kids, it sure as SHIT better not be directed at my kids (or theirs).

My husband told my younger son to stop being a baby the other day, and it was the first time he'd ever said something like this. We had a long talk. It's never happening again.

You are INSANE to leave your children around someone who demeans and disparages them like this. You're behaving as badly as he is.

I can promise you that if anyone spoke to my children like that, my kids would be out the door. Gone. Done.

Really? He said to stop being a baby, and you had a long talk? Wow. I don't think this is a big deal and maybe kid was acting like baby.

Thank you. I mean, we are all on the same page about the OP's situation. But I can't imagine how long of a talk you would have about your husband calling your son a baby. Unclench.

Like other PPs have asked, was he always this way or just once you had kids?

My situation was similar but not with both kids. My X was always known as the sweet quiet guy. After DC one, seemed like great dad. Then when I was preggo with DC two, became on edge. Having more frequent "rage-type" outbursts. Now once every blue moon, he'd have an outburst but not like when I was preggo. Then DC #2 came and was quite the screamer. My X was constantly saying to her curse words to the point I was like "get the f away". Seriously I have no sleep and you can't feed the baby without cursing?? Long story short, he was cheating in me and I guess the double life was stressing him out. Also I made more $$ than him (significantly) so I think he felt immasuclined to begin with (even though I made much more when we were dating). Now In my situation, I think the stress of him being a cheat and the screaming kids, financial responsibility and my attention on my kids more than him put him over the edge. It was almost like he became a totally different person. I always analogize it with someone who just snapped.

Anyway, HE wanted the divorce to go live his great new fantasy life (which was short lived). I had the same concerns over visitations too (DC less than 1yrs old and other DC 2.5yrs old). Luckily for me, he couldn't afford much for housing and didn't want to parent with roommates around and did all his visitations at my place. Fast forward 4 yrs and he's parenting just fine. I think sometimes if they get removed from the stress, they can be better parents.

Your kids are at that trying age so either you stay for 2 yrs and start making your plan for divorce (ie-stocking away cash somewhere for just you). Lining up your finances etc. if he gets worse sooner than later, leave and you'll figure out how to survive. He will need to pay you CS either way even if you make more $. Either way, believe me you can handle things on your own. I'm not saying it's been easy but for me, it's been easier than living with him. My stress level has gone down exponentially. The kids seem happy. Have their questions of why we don't live together. The oldest acted out more at first but now is past that. My lawyer always said its better for the kids to divorce young. They bounce back quicker.

Best of luck in a difficult situation.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have no interest in reading all the responses, but here is my response to your first paragraph (I said it out loud):

What the fuck!!!

Yeah, I love to curse. It's great. I have literally NEVER done it around my children (6 and 8). Never once. And if a "shit" or "damn" comes out of someone's mouth around kids, it sure as SHIT better not be directed at my kids (or theirs).

My husband told my younger son to stop being a baby the other day, and it was the first time he'd ever said something like this. We had a long talk. It's never happening again.

You are INSANE to leave your children around someone who demeans and disparages them like this. You're behaving as badly as he is.

I can promise you that if anyone spoke to my children like that, my kids would be out the door. Gone. Done.

Really? He said to stop being a baby, and you had a long talk? Wow. I don't think this is a big deal and maybe kid was acting like baby.

If your husband has such poor control over himself, hasn't it had an impact on him professionally and in other areas of life? I can't imagine someone speaking like this in my office without being taken aside and told to knock it off.

OP I didn't read every other post but I just have to say: while I understand your fear of split custody, you have NO IDEA how long your plan may take (how exactly will you know when there is "no chance he'll get any custody"??). It could take YEARS and every day that your kids are exposed to his verbal and emotional abuse, they are being slowly poisoned and harmed.

You need to develop a safe, sustainable exit plan that gets you out ASAP, and find a way to get both the legal and financial support you'll need. But your attitude of "divorce is not an option so I'm staying until I know he won't get custody", that makes no sense.

Since you tried counseling with him and things got worse, have you tried counseling on your own or with your older child? Even reaching out to a domestic violence hotline for perspective and options is a better idea than what you've said.

I truly wish ALL of you luck: you and your kids luck with getting away from him and finding peace and stability elsewhere; and him with waking up and realizing how hurt he is as well as hurtful, and healing.

Op you asked for advice. My first piece if advice is to get a lawyer and get advice from them. You're doing that. Ok. So my next piece of advice is to keep a factual log of each time he curses at or in front of the kids and each time he threatens you, curses at you or degrades you in front of the kids. Date, time, quote by him, which kid was in vacinity at the time. Then give tha to your attorney. You're welcome and good luck. l

In the VERY SLIM chance he does it as naturally as breathing, and isn't angry/annoyed when he starts dropping the F-bomb, this falls into the category of "stuff you have a right to wish he wouldn't do."
If he doesn't listen to your request, then you have to figure what to do.

From your first paragraph it does sound like he is losing his cool which is 100% not cool. Then IMO it's in the category of "stuff you should start planning to get the kids away from but isn't an immediate threat to their safety." Gather the evidence so as to preempt or win a custody battle.

A guy who gets blindsided by a divorce request has a habit of becoming the Greatest Parent Ever and will fight like a tiger -- he can sort of control whether/how much he gets to see his kids.

If he legitimately starts shaping up, you do owe it to him to increase his access to your kids and/or even reconcile with him.

Good luck.

OP, I have no interest in reading all the responses, but here is my response to your first paragraph (I said it out loud):

What the fuck!!!

Yeah, I love to curse. It's great. I have literally NEVER done it around my children (6 and 8). Never once. And if a "shit" or "damn" comes out of someone's mouth around kids, it sure as SHIT better not be directed at my kids (or theirs).

My husband told my younger son to stop being a baby the other day, and it was the first time he'd ever said something like this. We had a long talk. It's never happening again.

You are INSANE to leave your children around someone who demeans and disparages them like this. You're behaving as badly as he is.

I can promise you that if anyone spoke to my children like that, my kids would be out the door. Gone. Done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And for the posters who are saying his behavior is abusive...yes it is, but OP knows this already...she is looking for advice and opinions.

I am not convinced the OP really knows this, at least on a deeply fundamental level. Ostensibly she posts here looking for "advice and opinions", but she is quite adamant that she cannot leave him because she is in a Catch 22. She seems to be holding on to the delusion that she can "talk him into" seeing the error of his ways, and that divorce is not really an option.

We cannot address the husband here; we only have access to the OP who comes seems to be determined to paint herself into this corner and claim that leaving him would put her children at MORE risk than they are by staying with him.

I understand, OP, that you may feel trapped and powerless and that leaving him is dangerous. And frankly, you ARE in a tough spot. But by insisting that you must protect your children from him and that ties your hands from getting a divorce, you are dooming both your children and yourself to a miserable future and doing your children a disservice.

Get out NOW. TAKE the advice you've been given of documenting his behavior on video. Your current dreams of making him see the light are never going to come true. Don't find yourself 10 years from now trying to explain to your children why you did not protect them when you had the chance.

OP here, I do know this is verbal abuse. I grew up in a verbally abusive home -- which btw, to the PP who asked what trailer park I lived in, was an upper middle class home (I come from highly educated parents, and I am also highly educated and have an executive-level position at a software company). I know how this turns out. I am not looking for someone to justify me staying. I do not plan on staying. I am looking for advice on what to do now to make sure when we get to a custody battle that my husband does not get any. The bottom line is, if I leave right now he will have access to the kids without me around to get in between him and the kids. I have seen this happen with friends who were in similar situations. I am holding out until I can have enough evidence to ensure that he cannot be alone with the children when I leave him. And I do plan on leaving him. What I want advice on is what to do now. I am already looking for a family lawyer to get advice, but I was hoping to get some advice from others who have been-there-done-that and can tell me how they got through this type of situation without their husbands ending up with partial custody.

It's easy for people to speak from the sidelines, but really unless you have experienced this from my perspective you have no idea what you're talking about. I say this as someone who grew up wondering why my father never left my mother, who was verbally and physically abusive. Well, now I know. He was worried she would get custody. The mistake he made, I think, was not explaining it to me and being more supportive when he was around.

Also, anyone have any recommendations for a good family lawyer, preferably in Arlington or nearby?

OK but in your OP you said:

"I don't believe in denying a relationship, and I'd be fine with them having playdates and dinners or breakfasts and other shorter-length visits. I just don't want them living with him at all."

And now you say:

I am looking for advice on what to do now to make sure when we get to a custody battle that my husband does not get any.

You can't get that type of legal advice here. You've already been given the advice to document his trail of abuse and obtain a lawyer who understands the importance of keeping him away from them after the divorce. I'm not sure what more you're looking for besides the name of a specific lawyer. I think if anyone had that specific information it would have been offered up by now.

That is awful, I am sure it is really frightening your kids. For me it isn't so much that he is cursing, because to be honest, I do curse in front of my kids (e.g., door sticks, why can't I get this F-ing thing open?) - but I don't curse at them. I am sure that the kids feel that he is really angry at them (which it sounds like he actually is) and does not like them very much.
The reality is that it may be difficult to ensure that he doesn't get any custody at all, even if it isn't 50-50. Does he ever do this when others are around so that someone can be a witness for you regarding his anger/verbal abuse? Can you set up a hidden tape recorder to get some of it documented?

OP, I had this experience (not really the swearing, but the frequent angry yelling at the kids), and the root cause was that my husband was an alcoholic. I don't know if there might be any substance abuse in your case. But I just want to mention this because I learned as he went through rehab that an explosive temper often goes hand-in-hand with substance abuse. I just thought my husband was a mean jerk in addition to a drunk. But it turned out it was all part of the disease. He has been sober now for two and a half years (he went to rehab after I made it clear I would be taking our children and moving out if he didn't and is now active in AA) and is a different person. He still has a shorter temper than me, but it's no where near as bad as before. And I just have to say quietly say, "honey ..." when he's about to explode and he'll catch himself and calm down.

Op - it sounds like something changed if he only became like this 2 years ago. Could it be depression? Drinking too much? Using pills? Crazy high stress level? Hormone imbalance?

Also it sounds like you have major marital issues so he is probably also very resentful, angry, and frustrated that he is in a sexless, loveless marriage.

As you know you aren't going to work this out as the two of you are locked in a power struggle that isn't likely to shift after all this time.

You need a lawyer to tell you how much evidence is enough. The other piece is that it could be that the stress of the marriage and conflict with you is his main stressor/trigger and once you leave him and that stress is gone, he may be different with the kids than he is now. (Or maybe not).

It could also be that you have enough evidence now that he only gets supervised visits but that that becomes the wake-up call he needs and he does therapy, gets help, figures out what the issue is and then goes for more custody - assumably in that case you would be fine with more custody if he wasn't this angry and abusive.

Seeing as his actions have a start point that is recent - there must be a trigger.

Anonymous wrote:Op, sorry, but you're hurting kids by staying. They will grow up wondering why you didn't do more to protect them. It's not OK. He makes them feel worthless and their self esteem is going to take major hit

+1

Your kids will never be able to completely forgive you for staying.

Anonymous wrote:

And for the posters who are saying his behavior is abusive...yes it is, but OP knows this already...she is looking for advice and opinions.

I am not convinced the OP really knows this, at least on a deeply fundamental level. Ostensibly she posts here looking for "advice and opinions", but she is quite adamant that she cannot leave him because she is in a Catch 22. She seems to be holding on to the delusion that she can "talk him into" seeing the error of his ways, and that divorce is not really an option.

We cannot address the husband here; we only have access to the OP who comes seems to be determined to paint herself into this corner and claim that leaving him would put her children at MORE risk than they are by staying with him.

I understand, OP, that you may feel trapped and powerless and that leaving him is dangerous. And frankly, you ARE in a tough spot. But by insisting that you must protect your children from him and that ties your hands from getting a divorce, you are dooming both your children and yourself to a miserable future and doing your children a disservice.

Get out NOW. TAKE the advice you've been given of documenting his behavior on video. Your current dreams of making him see the light are never going to come true. Don't find yourself 10 years from now trying to explain to your children why you did not protect them when you had the chance.

OP here, I do know this is verbal abuse. I grew up in a verbally abusive home -- which btw, to the PP who asked what trailer park I lived in, was an upper middle class home (I come from highly educated parents, and I am also highly educated and have an executive-level position at a software company). I know how this turns out. I am not looking for someone to justify me staying. I do not plan on staying. I am looking for advice on what to do now to make sure when we get to a custody battle that my husband does not get any. The bottom line is, if I leave right now he will have access to the kids without me around to get in between him and the kids. I have seen this happen with friends who were in similar situations. I am holding out until I can have enough evidence to ensure that he cannot be alone with the children when I leave him. And I do plan on leaving him. What I want advice on is what to do now. I am already looking for a family lawyer to get advice, but I was hoping to get some advice from others who have been-there-done-that and can tell me how they got through this type of situation without their husbands ending up with partial custody.

It's easy for people to speak from the sidelines, but really unless you have experienced this from my perspective you have no idea what you're talking about. I say this as someone who grew up wondering why my father never left my mother, who was verbally and physically abusive. Well, now I know. He was worried she would get custody. The mistake he made, I think, was not explaining it to me and being more supportive when he was around.

Also, anyone have any recommendations for a good family lawyer, preferably in Arlington or nearby?

OP, seems obvious that you know what you need to do, if you're already considering custody arrangements. Staying in a marriage so that you can be there when he abuses the kids makes no sense, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Get a lawyer and move on with your life. You have no idea how custody will play out and do what you can to document his behavior, even from friends or relatives who you might have talked about it with. Who knows, maybe he won't want any part of custody, if the kids annoy him so much. This chapter needs to end. (As Dr. Phil would say: What's worse than being in an abusive relationship for ___ years? Being in an abusive relationship for ___ years and one day.)