Anonymous
08/24/2013 22:41
Subject: Re:if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
What's feminist is telling girls that
1. Your body belongs to you; it is not public property.
2. Your sexuality is yours; it is not public property.
3. Your body is not an object for other people's benefit or disdain.
4. Your clothes do not make other people do things.
You can't tell girls all of that and then also say, "But you shouldn't wear short shorts." Or, well, you can, but it's not logically consistent.
I agree with this and don't see short shorts as a feminist issue at all. I do think its an issue of appropriate behavior which goes for both girls and boys. I will not allow my daughter to dress inappropriately which which include underwear styled shorts. My son will not be allowed to wear shorts that hang off his butt either. While your clothes do not make other people do things, your clothing and how you present yourself does mean something.
I've done well in my career for my brain and that is what my employer pays me for each day. However, if I walked in wearing a Bozo the clown suit this certainly would not work in my favor.
Anonymous
08/24/2013 20:12
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
I would raise and eyebrow if my daughter wore slutty clothes. And then adopt an attitude of 'this too shall pass.'
Anonymous
08/24/2013 20:02
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
Anonymous wrote:So you don't draw the line at all? Braless is ok? Topless is ok?
You know that doesn't work in the working world, so why not start teaching them what appropriate looks like at 13?
Or do you just wait till they're being hauled into HR at 22 and told "You need to dress more appropriately."
Yes, it is usually wise for people to dress appropriately for the setting. Office wear at the office, swimsuits at the beach, casual wear in casual settings, etc. Notice how I was able to say this without referring specifically to the shortness, lowless, and/or tightness of clothes worn by young women..
Anonymous
08/24/2013 17:48
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
Anonymous wrote:I'll start by saying my daughter is almost seven and this is not an issue I have with her. I am just thinking ahead about the teen years and wondering what you all as experienced moms of older kids think about this.
I just saw one of my neighbors daughter (13) friends leaving the house with shorts short enough that you can see a peak of her underwear and her butt cheek. Just a peek- but the underwear were red- shorts were knit khaki. I was talking to my neighbor and we both ended up talking about this business of the current fashion of super short shorts.
On one hand, I think it might just be too much exposure, and there is an aopportunity to teach a young girl that different exposure amounts can generate different reactions, some of which they may not want (Leering construction workers, for example.)
On the other hand, it could be this amount of skin is so normal now that it doesnt get the reaction from men that I might imagine it does. Also, I think if a young girl carries herself non sleazy and doesnt actually dress sleazy (this girl did not) and the shorts and just short but not remarkable beyond that, then that counts for something as well. Maybe.
How have you felt about this issue? Is this something a parent can actually control and if so should they?
OP, please tell me you're just having a weak moment and this is not how you run your life.
The last time I checked, I was the parent and therefore, yes, I do control what my kids (teens) wear.
Anonymous
08/24/2013 14:39
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
So you don't draw the line at all? Braless is ok? Topless is ok?
You know that doesn't work in the working world, so why not start teaching them what appropriate looks like at 13?
Or do you just wait till they're being hauled into HR at 22 and told "You need to dress more appropriately."
You know that doesn't work in the working world, so why not start teaching them what appropriate looks like at 13?
Or do you just wait till they're being hauled into HR at 22 and told "You need to dress more appropriately."
Anonymous
08/24/2013 14:11
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
Anonymous wrote:Phrasing it as "you don't need to display everything" assumes that the girl's body is an object for other people's benefit (or disdain).
I am all in favor of talking to 13-year-olds about the male gaze and objectification and how society assumes that women's bodies are public property.
But it's not wearing short shorts that turns 13-year-old girls into objects. It's being a 13-year-old girl.
(see, for example: http://www.theonion.com/articles/teenage-girl-blossoming-into-beautiful-object,31061/ )
When you put it out there for everyone to see, it does become an object for others' benefit - namely males that like to ogle young girls' or frankly, any woman's butt.
Anonymous
08/24/2013 13:09
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
Phrasing it as "you don't need to display everything" assumes that the girl's body is an object for other people's benefit (or disdain).
I am all in favor of talking to 13-year-olds about the male gaze and objectification and how society assumes that women's bodies are public property.
But it's not wearing short shorts that turns 13-year-old girls into objects. It's being a 13-year-old girl.
(see, for example: http://www.theonion.com/articles/teenage-girl-blossoming-into-beautiful-object,31061/ )
I am all in favor of talking to 13-year-olds about the male gaze and objectification and how society assumes that women's bodies are public property.
But it's not wearing short shorts that turns 13-year-old girls into objects. It's being a 13-year-old girl.
(see, for example: http://www.theonion.com/articles/teenage-girl-blossoming-into-beautiful-object,31061/ )
Anonymous
08/24/2013 09:50
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
And those kinds of clothes aren't for a girl's comfort. They're designed to conform her to the expectations of the male gaze. There is nothing "feminist" about them.
Clothes are not feminist. Clothes are not anti-feminist. Clothes are clothes.
What's feminist is telling girls that
1. Your body belongs to you; it is not public property.
2. Your sexuality is yours; it is not public property.
3. Your body is not an object for other people's benefit or disdain.
4. Your clothes do not make other people do things.
Part o
You can't tell girls all of that and then also say, "But you shouldn't wear short shorts." Or, well, you can, but it's not logically consistent.
We are not talking about late teens or young women. We are talking about 13 year old girls. Part of telling them that their body is not public property is clueing them in to the idea that they don't need to display everything to be pretty.
Anonymous
08/24/2013 08:25
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
My daughter is 14 and very modest of her own choosing. However her school friends wear very short shorts and tight tops. What i notice is how unattractive it is. Many of the girls are "lumpy" and bigger than they think. I don't find it so sexually appalling as almost comical.
I have other issues with my daughters and find the strict house rules creed can back fire. I think you need to give them some leeway to make choices otherwise they will sneak out with another set of clothes to change into at school or at a friends. My neighbors are hard core about many rules (too many for me to keep track of!) and they come over to our house all the time and watch TV, play computer games, eat snacks, and so on which we allow in moderation at our house but is not allowed at all in their home.
I have other issues with my daughters and find the strict house rules creed can back fire. I think you need to give them some leeway to make choices otherwise they will sneak out with another set of clothes to change into at school or at a friends. My neighbors are hard core about many rules (too many for me to keep track of!) and they come over to our house all the time and watch TV, play computer games, eat snacks, and so on which we allow in moderation at our house but is not allowed at all in their home.
Anonymous
08/24/2013 07:19
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
Anonymous wrote:
And those kinds of clothes aren't for a girl's comfort. They're designed to conform her to the expectations of the male gaze. There is nothing "feminist" about them.
Clothes are not feminist. Clothes are not anti-feminist. Clothes are clothes.
What's feminist is telling girls that
1. Your body belongs to you; it is not public property.
2. Your sexuality is yours; it is not public property.
3. Your body is not an object for other people's benefit or disdain.
4. Your clothes do not make other people do things.
You can't tell girls all of that and then also say, "But you shouldn't wear short shorts." Or, well, you can, but it's not logically consistent.
Anonymous
08/24/2013 07:10
Subject: if the shorts get any shorter, they will be belts! What control can/should a parent have here?
Anonymous wrote:I was at a party this summer where the teenage daughter of the host and a couple of her friends came through in those shorts and equally revealing tops. Several of the men (her father's age) literally turned their backs to stop from staring.
I'm not into slut shaming, but wearing anything that is so revealing it makes other people uncomfortable seems out of line.
If other people are uncomfortable, they should look away. As the men at your party did. Good for them. Problem solved.