Anonymous wrote:OP here - DS is a rising sophomore and increasingly interested in Science - the worst part about all of this is his aptitude for both science and math. His K-8 middle school downplayed his math placement as did his HS - but to a lessor degree. He is a standout in debate and writing and other leadership oriented extracurriculars, but in the past two years he has also won some science awards and has been encouraged by his 8th and 9th science teachers because they see his potential. Physics was his favorite class last year, and he recently started telling people that he wants to major in CS which is why I'm in a panic about this right now. I now see that I need to take a closer look at some of the schools and programs and their requirements and perhaps revisit his situation with the HS - what a mess.

If Physics is favorite class and he has done well in it, has he considered computer engineering instead of CS? Or perhaps double majoring in comp engineering and CS. I guess it depends on what he wants to do. Does he want to write code or something else?

Anonymous wrote:I graduated college in 2010. I went to a very competitive suburban high school where most of the smart kids took calc BC as seniors, some as juniors with multivariable/linear algebra as seniors. That being said, a handful of otherwise good students (mostly honors/APs) only had pre-calc by senior year. The list of schools I can remember that they attended included Reed College, Bard College, Northwestern, Boston University, Sarah Lawrence, Duke, American University, and DePaul. So it really depends on a number of factors: if their curriculum was otherwise rigorous (honors, A.P., and/or I.B. classes), whether or not they are an athlete, whether or not they have some special exceptional talent in other areas (i.e. a talented musician or winning a writing award), etc. Maybe if you want to go to Harvard it might be an issue, but otherwise there should be options.

Just visited BU this week and they strongly implied that you need Calc to be admitted.

OP, my DD is also a rising sophomore (and my son is the one who is getting double degrees in CS & Classics). My DD wants to follow her brother's path and take Calculus as a junior. In order to do so, she plans to take math next summer (yes, she's a geek ).

Can your son take a math course next summer before his junior year? My school system offers various required classes (including many math ones) at high schools throughout the area each summer. There's a fee of $450 or so for a full credit. The benefit to taking math in the summer is that the course is accelerated (5 weeks with ~5 hours/day), and many kids find that an effective way to keep on top of math skills.

That should be ^* without geometry under her belt.

New to thread and chiming in. Same issue here OP. elementary math disaster, now in high school and "off track." Child was one of the bright but over-accelerated MCPS kids. Throw in an undiagnosed LD, which was then diagnosed (2E) but MCPS couldn't give a rat's ass. Going into 6th realized child had a foundation of sand, (ex. Didn't know math facts, shaky on division), but MCPS would have had her taking alg. 1 in 7th grade. Um no. We ended up homeschooling for middle where she worked with tutor one on one to rebuild, and she made grest strides, but by then her confidence around math was shaken.

She went competitive private for high school but was placed in Alg. 1. (Just had psycho-ed testing done again at the beginning of the summer and yes, there's an LD plus anxiety. School has been super supportive and helpful.). She did alg. II last year and will study abroad her jr year; the program doesn't offer geometry just some variation of pre-Calc. (I guess they assume everyone has done it already.) So she'll take geometry as a senior. Which means she's going into the PSAT/SAT with geometry under her belt. I'm a bit freaked, which is freaking her out. Looking ahead she's terrified that her SAT is going to be dragged down by the math and sink her chances at top schools. Grades are straight As, verbal and writing SAT very high... It's just that math. The school is pursing extra time for her with the college board, but that won't be able to overcome no geometry. She's had a full time pestigious internship for the past two summers, so there wouldn't have been time for a class. Hasn't done SAT prep either. The study abroad opportunity will be amazing. But the math situation ... Ugh. Now up at 4 am thinking of all I did wrong

Anonymous wrote:

OP here - DS is a rising sophomore and increasingly interested in Science - the worst part about all of this is his aptitude for both science and math. His K-8 middle school downplayed his math placement as did his HS - but to a lessor degree. He is a standout in debate and writing and other leadership oriented extracurriculars, but in the past two years he has also won some science awards and has been encouraged by his 8th and 9th science teachers because they see his potential. Physics was his favorite class last year, and he recently started telling people that he wants to major in CS which is why I'm in a panic about this right now. I now see that I need to take a closer look at some of the schools and programs and their requirements and perhaps revisit his situation with the HS - what a mess.

PP here, I would say that it's not worth panicking about. Sure he won't get into MIT but there are plenty of other places he can go where he can get a fantastic science education. At the SLAC I attended--which has a fantastic rep in the sciences in terms of sending people to doctoral programs in biology, chemistry, physics, and math I met a physics major who (due to a situation you are describing) took calculus for the first time his freshman year in college. Now he has a national sciences foundation graduate fellowship! My advice to you would be to apply to places that accept non-conventional students and/or have strong programs across the board. If your son is interested in physics, might I suggest a small liberal arts school such as Reed or Carleton have very strong programs and are often overlooked by STEM oriented types but look at the whole student in admissions. There are also other places like Carnegie Melon that have fantastic reputations for engineering and CS.

Learning is a process -- some kids lock in to math and science later than their prodigy peers but end up just as strong. My experience is that colleges are way ahead of many parents on this one! They WANT kids who are growing intellectually and finding new challenges all the way through high school. I second the Carleton recommendation. Another option is Rice, which is strong in sciences, but not only sciences, and attracts an interesting mix of kids.

OP here - DS is a rising sophomore and increasingly interested in Science - the worst part about all of this is his aptitude for both science and math. His K-8 middle school downplayed his math placement as did his HS - but to a lessor degree. He is a standout in debate and writing and other leadership oriented extracurriculars, but in the past two years he has also won some science awards and has been encouraged by his 8th and 9th science teachers because they see his potential. Physics was his favorite class last year, and he recently started telling people that he wants to major in CS which is why I'm in a panic about this right now. I now see that I need to take a closer look at some of the schools and programs and their requirements and perhaps revisit his situation with the HS - what a mess.

PP here, I would say that it's not worth panicking about. Sure he won't get into MIT but there are plenty of other places he can go where he can get a fantastic science education. At the SLAC I attended--which has a fantastic rep in the sciences in terms of sending people to doctoral programs in biology, chemistry, physics, and math I met a physics major who (due to a situation you are describing) took calculus for the first time his freshman year in college. Now he has a national sciences foundation graduate fellowship! My advice to you would be to apply to places that accept non-conventional students and/or have strong programs across the board. If your son is interested in physics, might I suggest a small liberal arts school such as Reed or Carleton have very strong programs and are often overlooked by STEM oriented types but look at the whole student in admissions. There are also other places like Carnegie Melon that have fantastic reputations for engineering and CS.

I graduated college in 2010. I went to a very competitive suburban high school where most of the smart kids took calc BC as seniors, some as juniors with multivariable/linear algebra as seniors. That being said, a handful of otherwise good students (mostly honors/APs) only had pre-calc by senior year. The list of schools I can remember that they attended included Reed College, Bard College, Northwestern, Boston University, Sarah Lawrence, Duke, American University, and DePaul. So it really depends on a number of factors: if their curriculum was otherwise rigorous (honors, A.P., and/or I.B. classes), whether or not they are an athlete, whether or not they have some special exceptional talent in other areas (i.e. a talented musician or winning a writing award), etc. Maybe if you want to go to Harvard it might be an issue, but otherwise there should be options.

OP here - DS is a rising sophomore and increasingly interested in Science - the worst part about all of this is his aptitude for both science and math. His K-8 middle school downplayed his math placement as did his HS - but to a lessor degree. He is a standout in debate and writing and other leadership oriented extracurriculars, but in the past two years he has also won some science awards and has been encouraged by his 8th and 9th science teachers because they see his potential. Physics was his favorite class last year, and he recently started telling people that he wants to major in CS which is why I'm in a panic about this right now. I now see that I need to take a closer look at some of the schools and programs and their requirements and perhaps revisit his situation with the HS - what a mess.

Anonymous wrote:OP here - sadly we were not given the option to double up courses or catch up elsewhere - at a community college or through CTY etc. If he transferred to public he could probably catch up - but far many reasons, this is not a good option. He his happy and doing well at his private and the math situation is not the high schools fault - it is a carry-over from his K-8 (nightmare). I'm trying to figure out how to bring this issue up with his HS advisor at the start of this year - set realistic expectations and goals. The HS is well aware of the math issue at his former K-8, but the only kids I know going to top schools with pre-calc are also star athletes (which he is not).

I'm the poster whose DC just went through the college process. Sounds like we had a similar situation -- a reasonably strong math student who entered tough private HS with poor fundamentals thanks to a weak elementary school program. I was distressed too when I got the news (also mad at myself for not figuring it out earlier). Doing well in math throughout HS and taking the hardest math classes available to him, along with high SAT and SAT2 math scores, will help your son's case. Down the road, you may find that calculus is the only barrier to his dream school, but as I said that wasn't our experience (although DC isn't pre-med and wasn't applying to engineering or math schools by any means).

Also, I don't understand how your high school can prevent your son from taking calculus at a community college -- you can send that transcript directly to the schools where he's applying.

I think OP's kid is going into high school. So he does have a few years before he declares a major. But I agree with the point that if he plans for a science/math heavy major, he'll need to hit the ground running in college (perhaps by taking Calc at a community college the summer before college) if there's any hope of graduating college in 4 years.

Anonymous wrote:Re: majoring in Computer Science, I think it would be very difficult for your son to declare two years into college and still graduate within four years. My son is getting a double degree at Maryland (Computer Science and Classics), and both majors require freshman and sophomore classes.

Yes, it would be very tough. The classes in the first couple of years are foundation classes, so it's not like you could double up to catch up. You _might_ be able to do it by taking summer classes etc, but even then it would be rough I think.

Yup, the serious majors are usually declared during the first year or it will take longer than four years to complete.

Re: majoring in Computer Science, I think it would be very difficult for your son to declare two years into college and still graduate within four years. My son is getting a double degree at Maryland (Computer Science and Classics), and both majors require freshman and sophomore classes.

You really need to look at the general requirements at the intended college. Some require a college level calculus; others may not. (So if kid is accepted to college just having taken Algebra II, the college may require a calculus to graduate).