Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP.

+ 1

+ 2

I'm sure there is some chemical aspect to it, but the term has become far too casual in our society. I think some of these people -- not all, but some -- need a good kick in the pants to get moving.

Kudos to OP for pulling himself together for the sake of little brother. That is a real victory story.

what a thread title. what a load of crap responses too. of course "depression" isn't a cop out. it's a diagnosis and not one you can just "decide" to get over. but patients can, frequently, get over it. it takes time, compassion and often medical attention.

and yes, there are quite a lot of depressed people who refuse to do anything about it. it generates feelings of hopelessness so that they "feel" that a solution isn't possible and that no one could possibly understand.
(even if they know otherwise.) they dump on their families and their friends and sometimes their kids too. depression is toxic, and it is selfish for the sick person to do nothing about it (just as it would be selfish for them to leave a curable cancer untreated because they're so sick and the treatment is so tiring). one of the reasons untreated depression can be so devastating is because it contaminates those relationships that should be healing and drives loved ones away.

of course, generally, the appropriate response from a compassionate partner is not venting about what an asshole the sick person is on an anonymous internet forum. come up with a new solution, OP. as the partner of someone who suffers from depression, i know how difficult it can be for the partner (who ends up the caretaker). it's hard not to think of the sick person as an asshole. because they're constantly dumping on you and never supporting you. divorce crossed my mind more than once during the dark periods. take some time to take care of yourself first. then remind yourself of how wonderful your wife can be when she is well. and figure out how best to get her well. talk to her about its effect on you and the kids. if she's on a treatment program, talk to her about how its going, how to get the most out of it. help her keep track of taking meds, offer to exercise with her, etc. above all, don't consult the internet. seriously. if you need medical advice, consult a doctor. if you need coping strategies, and don't have good resources on that front, perhaps make an appointment with a therapist yourself.

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to learn about depression. People with depression aren't saints--they can be lazy or unkind just like anyone else--but it's not "feeling sorry for yourself." I agree that people with dependents have an obligation to seek treatment, but depression itself is not a choice that people make.

For the sake of your kid, who does have a higher than average chance of having depression, you need to educate yourself and stop confusing your judgment of your relatives with any kind of medical knowledge.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the people telling OP he needs some sympathy, are you suffering from depression?

My mom is bi-polar. Am I supposed to give her carte Blanche for years of physical and emotional abuse because she was depressed? If your illness is impacting how other people live and grow up, maybe you need to fine tune your own empathy. I get that my mom was and is sick. But she acts like I am supposed to be Suzy Sunshine with her. She dismisses her behavior with, "that was the depression talking." I've been hearing that since I was three. When do I get the right to protect myself emotionally?

Behavior, intended of not, has consequences and can damage relationships and people.

Sorry to hear this...I cannot imagine growing up in a household with someone with a severe mental illness.
However, you have to remember that if someone has a DIAGNOSED mental illness then they have a MENTAL ILLNESS.
It is a little silly for someone to expect them to make sane and emotionally, and mentally healthy decisions when they have a diagnosed MENTAL illness.
What you have to do is recognize where they are in treatment and decide what your personal boundaries are...if you are being emotionally abused...u may have to limit or cut out contact.

Sorry, but children growing up with mentally ill parents to that degree don't have the option of deciding "personal boundaries." As someone who grew up in a house with someone diagnosed with mental illness, (and who used it as an excuse to be horrifically damaging to small children, i firmly believe if people are so depressed as to be abusive or non functioning, the children should be removed from the home. Sometimes, the well-being of others has to come before the rights of someone who is ill, mental or otherwise. You can't have your cake and eat it, too: either you can get out of bed and deal with life, or you can accept that your ten year old shouldn't be your caregiver, and they deserve to live in a more stable environment.

I am the PP
When speaking of boundaries...I am talking about AS AN ADULT
I know full well that a kid cannot make these decisions....thus why I started out saying I am sorry about having to go thru that...
I obviously was not clear
AS AN ADULT...should work on creating boundaries or cutting someone off if need be....
Not easy ...of course
But makes more sense than expecting crazy people to make rationale, healthy decisions

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mental illness like any illness can absolutely become an excuse for behavior. That doesn't mean the illness isn't real but people still make choices, depressed or not. They might not choose to have depression but they can choose to get help and to manage it. The vast majority of people with depression are not spending their lives lying on couches watching TV all day while the one family member who isn't depressed does all the work. Depression is not an excuse to treat people badly. Depression also does lead to many self-depreciating thoughts, leading to people feeling sorry for themselves and often leads to even less motivation and less action. it can be a vicious cycle. Having someone enable them to lie on a couch all day is actually really bad for the depression and likely to make it worse or last longer. Any decent therapist / doctor treating someone with depression will encourage them to get up, get dressed, do exercise, get out of the house, maintain basic routines etc... They will not tell them that having depression means you do nothing and other people take care of you all day.

OP- most of the people here giving you a hard time obviously do not understand depression. Being the caregiver for a family of people with mental illnesses is incredibly exhausting and frustrating. You need to get support for yourself and figure out what boundaries to set and how to keep yourself healthy. Your daughter needs you as well to be healthy.

You obviously haven't read what "most people here" have actually said. We're agreeing with you but taking exception to calling mental illness a "cop out."

And I disagree. Some people do use their illness, physical or mental, including depression as a cop out for sure. Having an illness doesn't mean you get to abandon all obligation and responsibility. To say that you have depression so for years and years you can't do anything but lie on the couch and watch TV is a cop out. You can get help, you can force yourself to go through the motions, you can still pick up stuff as you walk down the hall to the couch, you can make yourself do things even if you feel like doing nothing but lying on the couch. If OP wasn't there someone would have to get off the couch. People on here were mad at OP for having any expectation of his family members. Depression is brutal but it doesn't mean you never lift a finger again, especially if you have a child. Untreated mental illness can create terrible environments for kids to grow up in. Saying oh I can't do x,y, and z. In fact I can't do anything but lie here and watch TV every day, all day is using depression as a cop out.

Obviously you've never had a major depressive episode. I don't know if OP's relatives are truly depressed or just using it as a cover for laziness, but many people in the throes of major depression cannot, actually, force themselves to get better. It might take all their energy just to keep showing up for work. They may not even be able to do that much. Honestly, I had depression and lived alone and no, I didn't "have to get off the couch." I spent days not getting off the couch--I didn't eat, I didn't change my clothes, I missed classes, etc. I agree that depressed people have an obligation to those who depend on them to do their best to get treatment, but I really wish people would stop talking like getting better is just a matter of willing it. It's not, and not everyone is depressed to the same degree or in the same way.

autism is a cop-out? wtf?

I'm parsing from a PP:

It IS selfish to suffer from depression for extended period of time and not get treatment for it. It can appear as laziness and a cop-out when you are unable to get out of bed and function.

All of this to say, you don't have to create excuses to people with depression, but I think calling it a cop out and "lazy" is not productive. You can certainly require (as you should) that they get treatment and meds, and you don't have to neglect yourself in the process, but this is a sickness and it's certainly wasn't something I could just snap out of.

My DH has suffered from depression for many years - even before we were married. He also has anxiety and ADHD. What I've learned over the years is that these are 'co-morbid' conditions and if you have one, you frequently have the others and they negatively reinforce each other. Untreated, long term depression alters the brain and the longer it's untreated, the more difficult the recovery. It's uncommon to recover from long term depression without medication - that's how significant the brain changes are. Even with medication, it can take a long time to get back on track and the effectiveness of medications can fade over time requiring 'tinkering'.

My marriage has suffered significantly from my DH's disorders but I've stuck with it because he's been willing to seek treatment. It sometimes takes some effort to get through to him that he's starting to cycle into a depression but he knows that if he wants to stay married then he needs to do something about it. I've been the one to find him a psychiatrist (several, actually, over the years), make the appointment, get him to the appointment, get his prescriptions filled and make sure he takes it. But, I do this because I recognize he's not in a position to do it himself (although to the ignarithis may seem like 'laziness' and that I'm enabling him).

A few years ago, my DH was in a full blown, long term depression and he was resistant to making efforts to improve his mental health. We've got 3 kids (2 with SNs), I WOH and for a year did pretty much everything associated with the house and the kids. I ended up being depressed myself - and there's research that depression can be 'caught'. Unlike OP's situation, my depression doesn't manifest itself as tiredness and laziness, I get short tempered, irritable and poor emotional regulation. I'm perfectly capable of handling work and routines, I just found little happiness in life and seemed to be constantly PMSing. I started taking an SSRI and soon felt like my old self again. I had my old resiliency. I gave my DH an ultimatum, which he knew I would carry through on, and he sought treatment.

So, the whole point of this is that I agree with the PP that it IS selfish to suffer from depression and not seek treatment. I carry far more weight than my DH does but I accept that as long as he continues to treat his depression. I know there will be times when his medications may not be effective and I’ve accepted the impact they have on our sex life. My DH is a wonderful person and I’m willing to help him. But, I will not tolerate him succumbing to long term depression. You can’t help someone who won’t help themselves. Our kids and I deserve better than that.

OP, you need to be careful not to compare your depression with your DW’s. You should also decide what you’re willing to live with. If you’re not willing to live like you are now, you need to decide how you will change it. I do suggest you discuss this with your wife. Give her the ultimatum I gave my DH – get treatment or this marriage is over. Find her a psychiatrist, make her appointments, whatever it takes to get her on the road to recover - if she wants it. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mental illness like any illness can absolutely become an excuse for behavior. That doesn't mean the illness isn't real but people still make choices, depressed or not. They might not choose to have depression but they can choose to get help and to manage it. The vast majority of people with depression are not spending their lives lying on couches watching TV all day while the one family member who isn't depressed does all the work. Depression is not an excuse to treat people badly. Depression also does lead to many self-depreciating thoughts, leading to people feeling sorry for themselves and often leads to even less motivation and less action. it can be a vicious cycle. Having someone enable them to lie on a couch all day is actually really bad for the depression and likely to make it worse or last longer. Any decent therapist / doctor treating someone with depression will encourage them to get up, get dressed, do exercise, get out of the house, maintain basic routines etc... They will not tell them that having depression means you do nothing and other people take care of you all day.

OP- most of the people here giving you a hard time obviously do not understand depression. Being the caregiver for a family of people with mental illnesses is incredibly exhausting and frustrating. You need to get support for yourself and figure out what boundaries to set and how to keep yourself healthy. Your daughter needs you as well to be healthy.

You obviously haven't read what "most people here" have actually said. We're agreeing with you but taking exception to calling mental illness a "cop out."

And I disagree. Some people do use their illness, physical or mental, including depression as a cop out for sure. Having an illness doesn't mean you get to abandon all obligation and responsibility. To say that you have depression so for years and years you can't do anything but lie on the couch and watch TV is a cop out. You can get help, you can force yourself to go through the motions, you can still pick up stuff as you walk down the hall to the couch, you can make yourself do things even if you feel like doing nothing but lying on the couch. If OP wasn't there someone would have to get off the couch. People on here were mad at OP for having any expectation of his family members. Depression is brutal but it doesn't mean you never lift a finger again, especially if you have a child. Untreated mental illness can create terrible environments for kids to grow up in. Saying oh I can't do x,y, and z. In fact I can't do anything but lie here and watch TV every day, all day is using depression as a cop out.

Have you ever had major depression? I'm guessing not. Otherwise, you wouldn't be speaking in such absolute, judgmental terms as if you are God and can see inside the mind of someone who has/does suffer from depression.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mental illness like any illness can absolutely become an excuse for behavior. That doesn't mean the illness isn't real but people still make choices, depressed or not. They might not choose to have depression but they can choose to get help and to manage it. The vast majority of people with depression are not spending their lives lying on couches watching TV all day while the one family member who isn't depressed does all the work. Depression is not an excuse to treat people badly. Depression also does lead to many self-depreciating thoughts, leading to people feeling sorry for themselves and often leads to even less motivation and less action. it can be a vicious cycle. Having someone enable them to lie on a couch all day is actually really bad for the depression and likely to make it worse or last longer. Any decent therapist / doctor treating someone with depression will encourage them to get up, get dressed, do exercise, get out of the house, maintain basic routines etc... They will not tell them that having depression means you do nothing and other people take care of you all day.

OP- most of the people here giving you a hard time obviously do not understand depression. Being the caregiver for a family of people with mental illnesses is incredibly exhausting and frustrating. You need to get support for yourself and figure out what boundaries to set and how to keep yourself healthy. Your daughter needs you as well to be healthy.

You obviously haven't read what "most people here" have actually said. We're agreeing with you but taking exception to calling mental illness a "cop out."

And I disagree. Some people do use their illness, physical or mental, including depression as a cop out for sure. Having an illness doesn't mean you get to abandon all obligation and responsibility. To say that you have depression so for years and years you can't do anything but lie on the couch and watch TV is a cop out. You can get help, you can force yourself to go through the motions, you can still pick up stuff as you walk down the hall to the couch, you can make yourself do things even if you feel like doing nothing but lying on the couch. If OP wasn't there someone would have to get off the couch. People on here were mad at OP for having any expectation of his family members. Depression is brutal but it doesn't mean you never lift a finger again, especially if you have a child. Untreated mental illness can create terrible environments for kids to grow up in. Saying oh I can't do x,y, and z. In fact I can't do anything but lie here and watch TV every day, all day is using depression as a cop out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the OP is depressed.

Also, I think depression can be a cop-out while still being true. Depressed people don't want to deal with stuff, so they use it as an excuse, which makes them more depressed, ...

It's a downward cycle.

I am one of the PP who said it can be a cop out. I was recently diagnosed with cancer and since beginning treatment I am exhausted. I have definitely had people badgering me about why I'm not at whatever, don't do whatever, and I have snapped and said it's because I have cancer. I do have to frequently remind myself I have to keep the rest of my life going even though I'm exhausted and uncomfortable. I know many others, including close family members, who play the "poor me" card and just do nothing. They let their affliction define them. It is a cop out for them.

You have a right to take care of yourself. If other people are disappointed in your for that, they are the ones with a problem. You know this, right?

pp above again. I also wanted to add that when I see headlines like "mother kills her children..." is exactly the type of situation I'm describing. It's a serious illness so people calling it a cop-out are not helpful at all.

13:27 pp. I am the one who described my battle with depression and I completely agree with you. A parent who is severely depressed or with untreated bi-polar is not able to care for children. I am about as understanding about mental illness as it gets, but children don't deserve to be the punching bags. I'm so sorry you lived with this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the people telling OP he needs some sympathy, are you suffering from depression?

My mom is bi-polar. Am I supposed to give her carte Blanche for years of physical and emotional abuse because she was depressed? If your illness is impacting how other people live and grow up, maybe you need to fine tune your own empathy. I get that my mom was and is sick. But she acts like I am supposed to be Suzy Sunshine with her. She dismisses her behavior with, "that was the depression talking." I've been hearing that since I was three. When do I get the right to protect myself emotionally?

Behavior, intended of not, has consequences and can damage relationships and people.

Sorry to hear this...I cannot imagine growing up in a household with someone with a severe mental illness.
However, you have to remember that if someone has a DIAGNOSED mental illness then they have a MENTAL ILLNESS.
It is a little silly for someone to expect them to make sane and emotionally, and mentally healthy decisions when they have a diagnosed MENTAL illness.
What you have to do is recognize where they are in treatment and decide what your personal boundaries are...if you are being emotionally abused...u may have to limit or cut out contact.

Sorry, but children growing up with mentally ill parents to that degree don't have the option of deciding "personal boundaries." As someone who grew up in a house with someone diagnosed with mental illness, (and who used it as an excuse to be horrifically damaging to small children, i firmly believe if people are so depressed as to be abusive or non functioning, the children should be removed from the home. Sometimes, the well-being of others has to come before the rights of someone who is ill, mental or otherwise. You can't have your cake and eat it, too: either you can get out of bed and deal with life, or you can accept that your ten year old shouldn't be your caregiver, and they deserve to live in a more stable environment.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm with you. I think depression, ADHD, and frequently even autism now are cop outs.

+1. Also, Low T.