[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It's not just about STEM. Ability to figure out things like area, volume, angles is needed in many trades for even the most basic tasks - for example estimating the square footage of tile needed for a bathroom. Likewise, Algebra is useful for a great many things, like in food service where Algebra could be useful for scaling ingredients for a recipe to serve a given number of people. A basic knowledge of statistics is also useful for many aspects of everyday life.

But to flip the original question on its head, why so eager to dumb Americans down?[/quote]


You're confusing Alg 1 and Alg II. I don't think anyone is suggesting American kids shouldn't take Alg I. The question that is being debated in alot of education discussion is whether Alg II should be required (not whether it should be offered btw).

The question is twofold: 1) Is it necessary for everyone, even if you're not going into a STEM areas...and because we are requiring it are we creating an unnecessary hurdle for some kids; and 2) Are we pushing Alg II at the expense of other math that might be just as critical if not more so for most kids. [/quote]

Then why not name the thread is Alg II necessary for all? IMHO: 1) yes, it is if you're going to plan a renovation, unless you want to depend blindly on contractors, or if you want to remodel a house or build something; and 2) Alg II is a traditional stepping stone for Stats or trigonometry -- and an absolute necessity for medicine, the sciences, computer sciences, engineering -- fields in which the US is rapidly losing ground to other nations.

Anonymous wrote:I figure we need to offer advanced math to all the kids in order to figure out who the smartones are. We don't have a shortage of STEM professionals, what we have is a surplus of dumbasses.

Actually, we do have a shortage of STEM professionals, which is why so many STEM professionals are coming to the US from places like China and India on visa.

Folks are saying Algebra II is the prep for Calculus. I disagree, normally that's Pre-Calculus, not Algebra II. Algebra II usually builds on more advanced problem solving concepts like the quadratic formula.

I'd also point out another often overlooked subject - trigonometry. Very useful in some fields, like land surveying, which is all about angles - or, if a kid wanted to become a video game programmer or graphics programmer he'd also definitely have to know some trigonometry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just about STEM. Ability to figure out things like area, volume, angles is needed in many trades for even the most basic tasks - for example estimating the square footage of tile needed for a bathroom. Likewise, Algebra is useful for a great many things, like in food service where Algebra could be useful for scaling ingredients for a recipe to serve a given number of people. A basic knowledge of statistics is also useful for many aspects of everyday life.

But to flip the original question on its head, why so eager to dumb Americans down?

You're confusing Alg 1 and Alg II. I don't think anyone is suggesting American kids shouldn't take Alg I. The question that is being debated in alot of education discussion is whether Alg II should be required (not whether it should be offered btw).

The question is twofold: 1) Is it necessary for everyone, even if you're not going into a STEM areas...and because we are requiring it are we creating an unnecessary hurdle for some kids; and 2) Are we pushing Alg II at the expense of other math that might be just as critical if not more so for most kids.

And btw, most other countries that are doing better than us in international comparisons offer a choice of math pathways in secondary school, not just the single pathway we have (Alg 1, II, Geo, Calculus) which is really the engineering pathway.

Anonymous wrote:It's not just about STEM. Ability to figure out things like area, volume, angles is needed in many trades for even the most basic tasks - for example estimating the square footage of tile needed for a bathroom. Likewise, Algebra is useful for a great many things, like in food service where Algebra could be useful for scaling ingredients for a recipe to serve a given number of people. A basic knowledge of statistics is also useful for many aspects of everyday life.

But to flip the original question on its head, why so eager to dumb Americans down?

You're confusing Alg 1 and Alg II. I don't think anyone is suggesting American kids shouldn't take Alg I. The question that is being debated in alot of education discussion is whether Alg II should be required (not whether it should be offered btw).

The question is twofold: 1) Is it necessary for everyone, even if you're not going into a STEM areas...and because we are requiring it are we creating an unnecessary hurdle for some kids; and 2) Are we pushing Alg II at the expense of other math that might be just as critical if not more so for most kids.

Anonymous wrote:I figure we need to offer advanced math to all the kids in order to figure out who the smartones are. We don't have a shortage of STEM professionals, what we have is a surplus of dumbasses.

+1.

I'd add that I'm most impressed with the ones who can handle a range of advanced subjects. In my day scoring 800 on SAT math and <500 verbal just wasnt that impressive

It's not just about STEM. Ability to figure out things like area, volume, angles is needed in many trades for even the most basic tasks - for example estimating the square footage of tile needed for a bathroom. Likewise, Algebra is useful for a great many things, like in food service where Algebra could be useful for scaling ingredients for a recipe to serve a given number of people. A basic knowledge of statistics is also useful for many aspects of everyday life.

But to flip the original question on its head, why so eager to dumb Americans down?

Anonymous wrote:Necessary if you want to attend a good college. And ultimately get a good job (yes, could be writer) from that college. All college admin officers are looking both for grades and depth of study. Colleges want to see Algebra I, II, Geometry, Pre-Calc, Calculus, statistics, computer math and linear equations in depth on the resume. The first question she was asked at VA University admin interviews was "have you had or are your taking calculus?" It's a hurdle one must get over just as taking algebra, Geometry, Trig, etc., was a prerequisite to getting into a good college even tho I never took another math class in college (other that statistics). But thats the old world. new world expects advanced math study before college. Fifteen year old son is taking Algebra II camp so he can move on to Geometry in the fall (AND - tah dah - he actually likes it! 6 hours of Algebra a day and homework. An entire year being done in one month. So far so good. Amost a one-on-one class.

Yes, this is the way it is. But is this necessary or desirable?

Necessary if you want to attend a good college. And ultimately get a good job (yes, could be writer) from that college. All college admin officers are looking both for grades and depth of study. Colleges want to see Algebra I, II, Geometry, Pre-Calc, Calculus, statistics, computer math and linear equations in depth on the resume. The first question she was asked at VA University admin interviews was "have you had or are your taking calculus?" It's a hurdle one must get over just as taking algebra, Geometry, Trig, etc., was a prerequisite to getting into a good college even tho I never took another math class in college (other that statistics). But thats the old world. new world expects advanced math study before college. Fifteen year old son is taking Algebra II camp so he can move on to Geometry in the fall (AND - tah dah - he actually likes it! 6 hours of Algebra a day and homework. An entire year being done in one month. So far so good. Amost a one-on-one class.

"i just finished writing a report on this topic and this is the conclusion many in education are coming to. there is alot of other math we breeze by (statistics, ratio, proportion, technical math) that alot more people need on a daily basis because we are rushing our kids to take algebra II, which really prepares you for calculus. "

News at 11:00. The leading thinkers in education conclude ......... It reminds me of how the leading thinkers in economics tout deregulation of the banks/markets as the right move and the leading thinkers in Congress acting like disbanding the federal government is the right move

Since math is hard, and we don't want to drill kids with math facts (because that would be mean) rationalize that higher math is not necessary. Are they leading us further away from the best internationally in education?

Anonymous wrote:I am a writer and use algebra all the time. It's a life skill, basic math. Past that, no, I wouldn't say most people "need" statistics or calculus (though they can be handy), but algebra? Basic, basic stuff.

Actually, I think everyone should have a basic statistics course. It is so helpful in reading the news, understanding surveys, scientific studies, political trends. I think stats might be more important for the average person than algebra, although I think basic algebra and geometry should be required too.

I've found it useful in figuring out a number of real-life problems and sometimes at work. I am completely non-STEM.

Anonymous wrote:I figure we need to offer advanced math to all the kids in order to figure out who the smartones are. We don't have a shortage of STEM professionals, what we have is a surplus of dumbasses.

VTS

Anonymous wrote:algebra 1 is a good idea for most people. most folks don't really need most of algebra II for what they do in life, unless they are the 5% of the workforce in a STEM career.

i just finished writing a report on this topic and this is the conclusion many in education are coming to. there is alot of other math we breeze by (statistics, ratio, proportion, technical math) that alot more people need on a daily basis because we are rushing our kids to take algebra II, which really prepares you for calculus.

algebra II does serve as a proxy for good logics skills, etc...but so would a more useful math for most kids.

This sounds a lot like what the article author was proposing. Interesting read!

I figure we need to offer advanced math to all the kids in order to figure out who the smartones are. We don't have a shortage of STEM professionals, what we have is a surplus of dumbasses.