Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 16:23     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
http://catholicstand.com/pope-francis-knows-the-difference-between-redemption-and-salvation-do-you/

There is a difference between redemption and salvation ...
Anonymous
Post 05/29/2013 11:44     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
takoma wrote:The Pope has declared (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/05/23/pope-francis-atheists/2355935/) that a good person is redeemed by the blood of Christ even if that person is an atheist. I guess that I'll see you all in heaven, if I'm wrong and such a place really exists.


The point is that atheists aren't evil people and can meet Christians in the middle if they are doing good deeds.

Christ died for everyone but that doesn't mean an atheist is going to be going to heaven if they don't believe in Jesus as their savior.

I don't give a rat's ass either way but that's the message through all the new fluff.


You may need to go back and read the Pope's message, because that's exactly what he said. Whether atheists "believe" or not, they're going to heaven. Christ redeemed us all. Your belief in Christ is irrelevant. Go Pope!


+1 the Pope is a universalist!
Anonymous
Post 05/29/2013 09:31     Subject: Re:Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Honest question - so what's the purpose of believing in religion then, if it's plainly evident that people can be good and decent without it?


There is no "purpose." Is there a purpose in believing in the sun? If you are religious, you believe it because it's true. People can fulfill a spiritual need through practicing their religion, but really you can't "make" yourself believe in anything--you can be convinced, or allow yourself to be open to arguments that may sway your opinion. But in the end, you either believe or you don't.

I don't go to church on a regular basis, but I beleive in God. Why? I don't know, I just believe God exists.
takoma
Post 05/26/2013 14:38     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
And if an atheist has trouble pulling a code of behavior out of the randomness of evolution, he can crib from the Bible and notice that those guys quoting God came up with some good stuff, even if they were full of baloney about the God thing. Sort of like accepting Aesop's morals even if you don't really believe animals could talk in old Greece.
Anonymous
Post 05/26/2013 13:26     Subject: Re:Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you, and everyone else on this thread, and almost everyone who reads the news, misunderstood what the Pope said:

Jesus suffered and died for every human being who has ever lived. His redemption is offered to all. The vast majority of human being who have ever lived never heard the name "Jesus." But every human can know Jesus, the second Person of the Holy Trinity, one of the three Persons in one God, our Creator, because He has written His word on our hearts: do good and reject evil.

So of course atheists, and Moses, and Socrates, and Native Americans, and Anne Frank, and Gandhi, could possibly go to heaven, because Christ redeemed them. But every human being has a choice to accept redemption, or not: my will, not thine, or thy will, be mine.

One aspect of aligning our will with His involves doing His will on earth--doing good, not evil. Every person has the capacity to choose good, over evil.

So for the hypothetical, “But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’” Pope Francis gave the emphatic reply: “But do good: we will meet one another there.”

(Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lauren-enk/2013/05/23/media-claims-pope-gave-atheists-pass-heaven#ixzz2UFaOAb6o)

Because IF a person is doing good, s/he is, in fact, doing God's will, even if s/he refuses to acknowledge the Source of all Good, the source of Justice and Truth. It is possible to stumble across Truth, without realizing it.


Ok but secular philosophy is hardly a "stumble". You make it sound like an atheist doing good is accidental, like if a million atheists all do random things, one of then will do Gods will.

It is entirely possible that the good can be determined without faith. As Catholucs we know that truth is not just the Bible but natural law which is manifest in all creation. We can therefore learn about right and wrong by observing the universe and society even using the toolkit of an atheist.
Anonymous
Post 05/25/2013 14:53     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Wait. Is Jesus the son of God, or God incarnate? Can't be both.


I've always had trouble understanding how Christianity is monotheistic. At best, I think it's Henotheistic.


Thanks PP. A new word, and I agree.
Anonymous
Post 05/25/2013 14:51     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
By allowing atheists to go to heaven, Pope Francis is being more generous with us than we are with him.
Anonymous
Post 05/25/2013 10:58     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Anonymous wrote:Wait. Is Jesus the son of God, or God incarnate? Can't be both.


I've always had trouble understanding how Christianity is monotheistic. At best, I think it's Henotheistic.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2013 23:20     Subject: Re:Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Anonymous wrote:Pope Francis, in his sermon said:

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”


Yes, precisely. See 18:00.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2013 22:34     Subject: Re:Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:@18:19

Not sure where you get "the mention of Jesus is offensive". I am just demure about my beliefs. I don't think anybody should believe the way I do and I don't desire to ape the way other believe. I am extremely secure in my beliefs and how i worship. I also think others feel uncomfortable when it is different from their way or ways they have seen before. So I understand that you think it is weird and that is fine with me.


Well, it's just the way you phrased things, like you're not one of those Catholics who "needs to talk about Jesus all the time" and your church isn't one of those "praise" churches or something. One could almost that you look down on people who do talk about Jesus openly. Jesus is the core of your religion, no one should feel uncomfortable saying that.


I don't look down on people that "talk about Jesus".
"
I don't look down on Athiests so why would I look down on people that "talk about Jesus".
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2013 22:34     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Anonymous wrote:Honest question - so what's the purpose of believing in religion then, if it's plainly evident that people can be good and decent without it?


If all religion taught was "because you will go to hell if you aren't good" humans would have discarded it years ago. Religion gives me SA framework for understanding the universe, context, support, and many of the tools that help me do the right thing-- with no foc.us on an afterlife, or demand that I have faith (not Christian). Yes, I probably would be good and decent without it,but with it I am even better and kinder. If life works for you without it, go for it.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2013 20:44     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Anonymous wrote:Wait. Is Jesus the son of God, or God incarnate? Can't be both.


Christians believe that God is a Trinity- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Son, and is both fully human and fully divine. It certainly doesn't make a lot of logical sense, but I don't think it's supposed to.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2013 20:35     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Wait. Is Jesus the son of God, or God incarnate? Can't be both.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2013 20:17     Subject: Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Did you mean communion.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes. I believe Jesus existed. I believe Jesus is the son of God. He taught everything in the New Testament, without him there would be no New Testament. I don't WANT to talk to Jesus because I believe religion is a personal thing. This may be the way I was brought up. Our church was not all get up and Praise Jesus.

My relationship with God is personal and I don't feel I need to discuss it with anybody or preach it to anybody. It[u] is not depressing to me, it is very comfortable.

But if somebody would like to practice differently than me I respect that, if somebody wants to practice a different religion than me or no religion at all that is fine with me to. I completely respect that and believe that is their relationship with God and if they are happy/healthy then they are doing it right.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes. I would rather sleep in on Sunday and many times I do. I don't think I am going to hell for it. Well, yes Jesus is a part of the Catholic teaching. I mentioned Christmas and Easter which revolve around Jesus. I am a very liberal Catholic, have you never met a Catholic person that does not talk about Jesus all the time?


So you disregard the great commission?

Anonymous
Post 05/24/2013 20:03     Subject: Re:Pope Francis recognizes good atheists.
Anonymous wrote:@18:19

Not sure where you get "the mention of Jesus is offensive". I am just demure about my beliefs. I don't think anybody should believe the way I do and I don't desire to ape the way other believe. I am extremely secure in my beliefs and how i worship. I also think others feel uncomfortable when it is different from their way or ways they have seen before. So I understand that you think it is weird and that is fine with me.


Well, it's just the way you phrased things, like you're not one of those Catholics who "needs to talk about Jesus all the time" and your church isn't one of those "praise" churches or something. One could almost that you look down on people who do talk about Jesus openly. Jesus is the core of your religion, no one should feel uncomfortable saying that.