Anonymous
05/27/2013 11:57
Subject: Re:WaPo story on math finals
Anonymous wrote:First, important to understand that kids taking APs and IB do not take the county-wide final.
Second, although the results are of course disturbing, I find it refreshing that there is a county-wide final (ie, kids in all schools/classes throughout the county take a standard test) and that we are finding out the results. The alternative is, do away with the county final, let all schools/teachers provide whatever final they see fit, and then pretend the kids have learned what they needed to.
The county-wide final appears to me to be an attempt to set a county-wide standard and the high percentage of failures indicate that the bar has not been set too low. (I doubt it's been set too high either). It at least shows us where the problems lie. Maybe it is too much acceleration. Maybe something else. But I for one am glad to see the problem identified and out in the open.
Historically, the county-wide final was instituted in response to problems that were uncovered when each teacher was making their own final. There were wide variations in the quality of the tests created and the "bar" set for kids to pass at different schools. I believe that the BoE was involved in uncovering and pressing for the standardization of finals in MCPS. I believe unit and final exams are now standardized and secure across the county for a class like Algebra.
Personally, our DCs have encountered situations more than once where the classroom teacher has made a formative exam that contained wrong answers. So, I welcome the standardization.
IMO, it would be wrong to blame this problem on acceleration since the data released shows that students taking Algebra in middle school are actually passing Algebra at higher rates than those who take it in HS.
Anonymous
05/27/2013 11:02
Subject: WaPo story on math finals
The evidence suggests that the county-wide final does a poor job of testing the students' performance or understanding. I doubt that there's a bar that's been "set too high"; what I would think from the number of failures is that the exam is poorly designed, poorly written, or both.
Evaluating the exam is much simpler than casting about for ways to blame the students, individual teachers, or even the curriculum.
Evaluating the exam is much simpler than casting about for ways to blame the students, individual teachers, or even the curriculum.
Anonymous
05/27/2013 11:00
Subject: Re:WaPo story on math finals
Anonymous wrote:Junior high school includes ninth grade. In Montgomery County we have middle schools that includes grades six through eight.
And what does that "math factoid" have to do with the price of butter?
Read the thread again and perhaps you'll understand.
Anonymous
05/27/2013 08:34
Subject: Re:WaPo story on math finals
First, important to understand that kids taking APs and IB do not take the county-wide final.
Second, although the results are of course disturbing, I find it refreshing that there is a county-wide final (ie, kids in all schools/classes throughout the county take a standard test) and that we are finding out the results. The alternative is, do away with the county final, let all schools/teachers provide whatever final they see fit, and then pretend the kids have learned what they needed to.
The county-wide final appears to me to be an attempt to set a county-wide standard and the high percentage of failures indicate that the bar has not been set too low. (I doubt it's been set too high either). It at least shows us where the problems lie. Maybe it is too much acceleration. Maybe something else. But I for one am glad to see the problem identified and out in the open.
Second, although the results are of course disturbing, I find it refreshing that there is a county-wide final (ie, kids in all schools/classes throughout the county take a standard test) and that we are finding out the results. The alternative is, do away with the county final, let all schools/teachers provide whatever final they see fit, and then pretend the kids have learned what they needed to.
The county-wide final appears to me to be an attempt to set a county-wide standard and the high percentage of failures indicate that the bar has not been set too low. (I doubt it's been set too high either). It at least shows us where the problems lie. Maybe it is too much acceleration. Maybe something else. But I for one am glad to see the problem identified and out in the open.
Anonymous
05/27/2013 06:41
Subject: Re:WaPo story on math finals
Anonymous wrote:Junior high school includes ninth grade. In Montgomery County we have middle schools that includes grades six through eight.
And what does that "math factoid" have to do with the price of butter?
PP said that, unlike in MCPS, where students take algebra in 8th or 9th grade, students in Asia and Europe take algebra in their equivalent of junior high. But junior high includes 8th and 9th grades. So it's NOT unlike MCPS.
(I'm impressed, by the way, by the comparison to "Asia and Europe" -- which is about 100 separate countries.)
Anonymous
05/27/2013 00:06
Subject: Re:WaPo story on math finals
Junior high school includes ninth grade. In Montgomery County we have middle schools that includes grades six through eight.
And what does that "math factoid" have to do with the price of butter?
Anonymous
05/26/2013 22:56
Subject: WaPo story on math finals
Junior high school includes ninth grade. In Montgomery County we have middle schools that includes grades six through eight.
Anonymous
05/26/2013 21:16
Subject: WaPo story on math finals
I guess Americans are just truly stupid at teaching and learning math.
While you all are blaming algebra in 8th grade versus 9th grade as the be al lend all, students in Asia and Europe took it in the equivalent of junior high school.
If you don't sit on your butt and learn the concepts, you don't learn the concepts! No matter what kooky union budget, methodology or diverse student body is around.
While you all are blaming algebra in 8th grade versus 9th grade as the be al lend all, students in Asia and Europe took it in the equivalent of junior high school.
If you don't sit on your butt and learn the concepts, you don't learn the concepts! No matter what kooky union budget, methodology or diverse student body is around.
Anonymous
05/26/2013 19:45
Subject: WaPo story on math finals
P.S. What I meant to say is that about 40 % of students had to repeat the class in 9th grade.
Anonymous
05/26/2013 19:43
Subject: WaPo story on math finals
A fundamental problem is defining Algebra 1 as an "on grade level" course for 8th grade, rather than 9th. At some point, someone decided that middle schools/middle school principals were going to be evaluated by what % of 8th graders take Algebra 1. So, lots of kids are being placed who aren't ready, which hurts everyone. In 2005, my son did get through it with a B, did well on the countywide exam and passed the HSA. Those who got below a B repeated the class in 9th grade. I'm talking about a Bethesda middle school, by the way. What gave my son trouble was the large class size, plus, I later realized, the large # of students not ready for the abstraction of Algebra.
Anonymous
05/24/2013 13:04
Subject: Re:WaPo story on math finals
Anonymous wrote:MCPS sucks. It will blame the kids and try to use this as a way to keep pushing the new 2.0 math which is even worse!
If over acceleration was the problem you would see the group of students who were not accelerated doing better in their levels than accelerated students. The distribution doesn't show this at all. Rather than actually improving the rigor and quality of math instructions, MCPS is hoping that by holding back all students, the more talented math students will test better in the lower levels hiding the lack of performance in other students. Its a stupid approach.
Even if this were true, this approach would work only if MCPS, under 2.0, were actually "holding back all students". But MCPS is not.
And, also, according to you, this reflects a problem with math instruction for the non-accelerated students. So let's talk about that -- math instruction for the non-accelerated students. There are a lot of them, and it's a valid topic, regardless of how 2.0 may or may not affected your own talented-at-math child(ren).
Anonymous
05/24/2013 12:35
Subject: Re:WaPo story on math finals
MCPS sucks. It will blame the kids and try to use this as a way to keep pushing the new 2.0 math which is even worse!
If over acceleration was the problem you would see the group of students who were not accelerated doing better in their levels than accelerated students. The distribution doesn't show this at all. Rather than actually improving the rigor and quality of math instructions, MCPS is hoping that by holding back all students, the more talented math students will test better in the lower levels hiding the lack of performance in other students. Its a stupid approach.
If over acceleration was the problem you would see the group of students who were not accelerated doing better in their levels than accelerated students. The distribution doesn't show this at all. Rather than actually improving the rigor and quality of math instructions, MCPS is hoping that by holding back all students, the more talented math students will test better in the lower levels hiding the lack of performance in other students. Its a stupid approach.
Anonymous
05/22/2013 23:18
Subject: WaPo story on math finals
Anonymous wrote:Rigor has nothing to do with acceleration.
Agree.
Btw, at my company, we love math or engineering majors with decent grades. They are smart, know how to think, are trainable, and learn new topics quickly. They can learn finance, accounting, business concepts, etc way faster and more thoroughly than any liberal arts, business or Econ major. I have seen this across many companies and hiring opportunities. Sadly, other countries are teaching and learning math-and high level maths- much more effectively than the U.S.
Anonymous
05/22/2013 21:57
Subject: Re:WaPo story on math finals
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Fine. Most will agree. But why Algebra I in 7th grade. I had basic algebra in 10th. What's the freakin' rush?
Because
1. if you take Algebra I in 10th grade, you will probably have to take a year of math in college before you even get to calculus, and a lot of STEM courses have calculus (or higher) as a pre-requisite.
2. some students are ready for Algebra I in 7th grade. And again, Algebra I in 7th grade is the above-grade-level track.
Not PP but a sensible approach would be take alg in 9th, geo in 10th, trig in 11 th, pre cal in 12th. This puts you right on target for college calculus. You shouldn't have to take either of the last 2 to graduate hs. Those who are more advanced can start in 8th.
But I'll tell you many universities have math placement tests so even if you take pre calc in highschool you can't go to calc if you are prematurely accelerated and can't pass the test.
Forget going straight to Calc. Montgomery College says 70% of their MoCO Grads need REMEDIAL math. MoCo's math bubble has finally burst.
Anonymous
05/22/2013 08:57
Subject: Re:WaPo story on math finals
Anonymous wrote:It makes me angry that the school officials seem to be blaming the failure rate on the students by saying that they evidently aren't studying for the exams. One of the local news stations showed some stats yesterday and at some schools, 97-100% of students failed the semester exam for one of the math classes in question. If the numbers are that high, that tells me there's much more of an issue than kids not studying. I will be interested to see how my DC does on the upcoming Alg2 exam, after receiving average grades in the class this year.
The kids are being pushed through the math classes without having a full understanding of the subject matter, especially the kids who take Algebra in middle school.
So true!