Anonymous wrote:If it ain't Ivy, it ain't worth it. Next question.

Ivies aren't worth it. It does give moderately higher income and improved job opportunities, but the cost is still too high when compared against the improvements in income.

I hope my kids don't get their hearts set on one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the majority of posts here are ludicrous. Why the surprise and outrage? Why the assumption that all students have the same aptitude or drive? Anyone could see this coming 20 years ago. Our financial advisor suggested saving $250,000 for each child. Expensive colleges aren't for everyone, but if your kid has the ability to do top notch work (and not spend college at a frat or sorority in a drunken stupor going to football games and taking watered down preprofessional coursework like business, communication, hospitality or sports management) the economic payoff, not to mention the self-improvement, can be well worth it. I suspect that the majority of posters here would also contend that there's no value to private secondary school.

Are private colleges way expensive? Yes. Should certain students forget a pricey college and go instead to a community college or a state school (and don't get me wrong, some of them are fine schools)? Yes. Not all students are the same. Know your kid and know the requirements of certain sectors of the workplace. One size doesn't fit all.

Your post is what's ludicrous. I've worked in higher ed, including for one of these expensive colleges. To suggest that one cannot receive academically rigorous coursework outside of a $50K+ per year school is the height of arrogance and ignorance. But hey, if you have the money to waste and you think it's worth it, go for it. I'm sure the facts won't stop you from assuming that everyone who doesn't go to an "elite" school is an idiot who is drunk for four years. Enjoy life in your bubble, PP!

Why don't you read carefully before you post? Did you get your pants in a twist before you read the second paragraph and then just quit reading and posted?Good thing you don't work in higher ed any longer if that's your level of reading comprehension. What part of "some of them are fine schools" is unclear? By the same token some of them are no better than costly, 4-year, young adult party and sports venues. I have no problem with party hardy, but I do take issue with watered down curricula. It serves no one.

Oh please. Your entire post smacked of snooty elitism and you know it. So STFU about my reading comprehension. I gathered your meaning perfectly.

Anonymous wrote:If it ain't Ivy, it ain't worth it. Next question.

Moving on after settling the best SLAC in the Midwest question, I see. You're on a roll, oh wise one.

If it ain't Ivy, it ain't worth it. Next question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the majority of posts here are ludicrous. Why the surprise and outrage? Why the assumption that all students have the same aptitude or drive? Anyone could see this coming 20 years ago. Our financial advisor suggested saving $250,000 for each child. Expensive colleges aren't for everyone, but if your kid has the ability to do top notch work (and not spend college at a frat or sorority in a drunken stupor going to football games and taking watered down preprofessional coursework like business, communication, hospitality or sports management) the economic payoff, not to mention the self-improvement, can be well worth it. I suspect that the majority of posters here would also contend that there's no value to private secondary school.

Are private colleges way expensive? Yes. Should certain students forget a pricey college and go instead to a community college or a state school (and don't get me wrong, some of them are fine schools)? Yes. Not all students are the same. Know your kid and know the requirements of certain sectors of the workplace. One size doesn't fit all.

Your post is what's ludicrous. I've worked in higher ed, including for one of these expensive colleges. To suggest that one cannot receive academically rigorous coursework outside of a $50K+ per year school is the height of arrogance and ignorance. But hey, if you have the money to waste and you think it's worth it, go for it. I'm sure the facts won't stop you from assuming that everyone who doesn't go to an "elite" school is an idiot who is drunk for four years. Enjoy life in your bubble, PP!

Why don't you read carefully before you post? Did you get your pants in a twist before you read the second paragraph and then just quit reading and posted?Good thing you don't work in higher ed any longer if that's your level of reading comprehension. What part of "some of them are fine schools" is unclear? By the same token some of them are no better than costly, 4-year, young adult party and sports venues. I have no problem with party hardy, but I do take issue with watered down curricula. It serves no one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually you can. We're in the same boat as you (HHI of $200K+ but well less than $300K) with one kid in college, the second in another year, and the third two years later -- in other words, during the 8 consecutive years our kids will be in college (and they BETTER get it done in 4 years!), will only have two in college for four years. Currently, we pay about $5500 per month (over ten months) for kid one's college (and no, we didn't qualify for any financial aid & our expected family contribution was calculated at $80K), but with two in college, we'll probably qualify for some FA if kid two also takes the private/no non-need-based FA route because in determining FA, it seems that the only thing that really matters when your HHI is over $100K is how many of your kids are in college -- so the more kids you have in college, the more "affordable" college becomes.

PP with the big mortgage, this might help you. This 10-month plan looks a lot like the 10-month tuition payment option for private schools. I'm the PP with all the FA info above, and we're also in the $200K+ boat, and we did the 10-month plan for private ES although we switched to public for MS and HS (helped a lot with the college savings) and now DC is headed to one if those colleges that's in the top 5-10 of any ranking and we didn't get FA. If you can swing $3,500/mo currently for private school, that'll get you more than half the way there to private college. These 10-month payment plans, which you can get through Sallie Mae and other places, are what we're going to do too. You don't have to spread out the full $55000 if you have savings, so we're going to do $2,000/mo.

That's if you decide the pricetag is worth it, of course, which is obviously up for debate here.

Some schools offer a payment plan for a small fee - UVA does and it's only $35/semester to spread it over 5 payments. You have to re-up every semester.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which ones cost this much? Ivies?

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eddf45ikjm/methodology/

Most of these would be "worth" it (probably not Fordham, NYU, or Sarah Lawrence, but the others). This has been discussed ad nauseum before, but college isn't just about getting a great education (which the schools on that list, and many others, obviously afford) - it's also about connections, recruiting, alumni influence, etc. So if you're going to be an artist, maybe you don't spend the $$. But if you have no clue what you want to do, these schools (and the ones that are generally ranked in the top 10 of the US News, although several on this list are overlapping with the US News list) open up doors for kids that other schools just don't. How can anyone deny that? And if this weren't the case, Harvard (which, shockingly, is not on this list - must be #11) et al wouldn't have such insanely low acceptance rates, because *no one would think it was worthwhile* to apply.

Re Colleges that Change Lives -- I don't think the point of this book or the admissions program that it has spawned is about return on investment. Most, if not all, of the schools on the list are private colleges with fairly hefty tuition and fees -- they're not holding themselves out as bargains so much as undiscovered (at least on the right and left coasts) gems, which are, perhaps as a consequence of their lower-profile, a bit less selective. I think it's also fair to say they stress the personal connection between faculty and students, as well as strong advising programs. As a parent of two college students and a former college admissions officer myself (not at any of the CCTL schools), I would say that can be well worth the price. All students benefit from opportunities to find mentors among faculty and administrators, and for some students it can make a critical difference in terms of developing a course of study that is meaningful and marketable.

In general, I would question what seems to be the premise of many posters here: i.e., that education is a fungible product and that the only valuable input that a college or university might offer is the network or brand its students can tap into. I'm not naive or idealistic, so I won't say that networks and brands are inconsequential (I've benefitted from these), but there's more to education than that. My own kids attend a highly-selective, upscale-brand research university. Yes, a lot of employers come to campus to recruit and grad schools generally look favorably upon applicants from the school, but the underlying reason for this is the students themselves -- the raw material, if you will -- and the experience in the classroom -- the value added. These factors can vary significantly at different schools.

I'd guess that my kids, who were well-prepared by their high school experience and who are focused and highly-motivated students, could have gotten a great education at a large public university, and though they might have given up the fancy brand name, it wouldn't make a significant difference in terms of long-term career prospects or income. Plus, they'd get to go to March Madness or Bowl Games, which would be totally awesome -- seriously. But that's not the experience they wanted, and we could pay for a private, so it's our gift to them.

Similarly, if they'd chosen to attend a SLAC, they'd give up a bit on the brand name -- though the impact at the most selective SLACs if more in terms of bumper sticker recognition than in employment or grad school admissions -- but they'd have a very different educational experience which would emphasize a different teaching style with, for example, more intro courses taught by faculty in smaller groups, rather than lectures, plus discussion sections with TAs. There is a great deal to be said for this experience, which can help students develop very strong writing and oral advocacy skills.

Anonymous wrote:My dentist told me about a book on "colleges that change lives". So, I think the colleges noted in that book are worth it. Otherwise -- no! I say if a private school is not in the top 10 of rankings on US News -- the kid should go public.

Really? With all due respect to your dentist, I look at the list and don't think they are necessarily worth it. For the right kid they could be a great choice but I don't think the return on investment at Beloit or Denison or Earlham is somehow better than a Kenyon or Trinity or Davidson.

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid living with a single parent we were poor also and moved from one dumpy apartment to another. I never desired to be rich as a child just "normal" and out of poverty. I considered rich to be like the Howells on Gilligan's Island(before they were shipwrecked!) I thought luxury items were fancy cars, jewelry, butlers, maids, mansions. Now as an adult I have made it to the middle/upper- middle class. But it seems that the new luxuries of out time are a house in a good school district, college, and a family vacation. Elizabeth Warren was right in "The Two Income Trap". We are pricing ourselves out of what seem to be normal family desires-home and education.

The Two Income Trap made some good points. We're all stretched so thin, yet we feel we're falling behind on things like college, and a health or job setback spells disaster.

When I was a kid living with a single parent we were poor also and moved from one dumpy apartment to another. I never desired to be rich as a child just "normal" and out of poverty. I considered rich to be like the Howells on Gilligan's Island(before they were shipwrecked!) I thought luxury items were fancy cars, jewelry, butlers, maids, mansions. Now as an adult I have made it to the middle/upper- middle class. But it seems that the new luxuries of out time are a house in a good school district, college, and a family vacation. Elizabeth Warren was right in "The Two Income Trap". We are pricing ourselves out of what seem to be normal family desires-home and education.

Anonymous wrote:Actually you can. We're in the same boat as you (HHI of $200K+ but well less than $300K) with one kid in college, the second in another year, and the third two years later -- in other words, during the 8 consecutive years our kids will be in college (and they BETTER get it done in 4 years!), will only have two in college for four years. Currently, we pay about $5500 per month (over ten months) for kid one's college (and no, we didn't qualify for any financial aid & our expected family contribution was calculated at $80K), but with two in college, we'll probably qualify for some FA if kid two also takes the private/no non-need-based FA route because in determining FA, it seems that the only thing that really matters when your HHI is over $100K is how many of your kids are in college -- so the more kids you have in college, the more "affordable" college becomes.

PP with the big mortgage, this might help you. This 10-month plan looks a lot like the 10-month tuition payment option for private schools. I'm the PP with all the FA info above, and we're also in the $200K+ boat, and we did the 10-month plan for private ES although we switched to public for MS and HS (helped a lot with the college savings) and now DC is headed to one if those colleges that's in the top 5-10 of any ranking and we didn't get FA. If you can swing $3,500/mo currently for private school, that'll get you more than half the way there to private college. These 10-month payment plans, which you can get through Sallie Mae and other places, are what we're going to do too. You don't have to spread out the full $55000 if you have savings, so we're going to do $2,000/mo.

That's if you decide the pricetag is worth it, of course, which is obviously up for debate here.

My dentist told me about a book on "colleges that change lives". So, I think the colleges noted in that book are worth it. Otherwise -- no! I say if a private school is not in the top 10 of rankings on US News -- the kid should go public.

Actually you can. We're in the same boat as you (HHI of $200K+ but well less than $300K) with one kid in college, the second in another year, and the third two years later -- in other words, during the 8 consecutive years our kids will be in college (and they BETTER get it done in 4 years!), will only have two in college for four years. Currently, we pay about $5500 per month (over ten months) for kid one's college (and no, we didn't qualify for any financial aid & our expected family contribution was calculated at $80K), but with two in college, we'll probably qualify for some FA if kid two also takes the private/no non-need-based FA route because in determining FA, it seems that the only thing that really matters when your HHI is over $100K is how many of your kids are in college -- so the more kids you have in college, the more "affordable" college becomes.

I went to one of these nice expensive private colleges. I was poor and got a nice financial aid package. I had 10 years of loans but the debt was reasonable not crushing. My DH went to a top public and he too had loans but they were small. Now we are in the upper middle class with a HHI in the $200000's. We live in a small house and are careful with money. We have saved for our three kids college but we have not always made this high income. Now that we as parents will not need to qualify for aid we also will not be able to afford with in reason the $750,000 it would cost to send the kids to the same college I went to. It is funny that now that I am no longer poor I can not afford to send my kids there!