AHG isn't very prevalent in the DC area. Besides, although I am Christian, I want my daughter to meet girls of all backgrounds.

We tried to join GS, but we were very put off by so many things. The leaders were rude and made it feel like allowing us to participate was some sort of royal privilege, then the amount of work to start up a Daisy's troop is incredible.

My friend at work told me about AHG (American Heritage Girls), and we have been very happy there. Such a great group of friendly and inclusive people, and I like the Christian focus. We can actually use the word God at our meetings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have certainly seen girls hazed out of GS. If you think that is happening -- drop. The leaders only want "certain" girls, or just enough to fit in the leaders cars. 6-8.

Coming from a leader, and involved in the SU, I have never heard of hazing. That said, there were many girls I would have loved to drop. The ones that don't pay, the ones that never show, the ones who interrupt, the ones whose parents NEVER help out or carpool but gladly use me for their "babysitter."

If you want a better experience for your daughter you can switch troops or maybe run a troop yourself instead of complaining.

+ 1

Anonymous wrote:I have certainly seen girls hazed out of GS. If you think that is happening -- drop. The leaders only want "certain" girls, or just enough to fit in the leaders cars. 6-8.

Coming from a leader, and involved in the SU, I have never heard of hazing. That said, there were many girls I would have loved to drop. The ones that don't pay, the ones that never show, the ones who interrupt, the ones whose parents NEVER help out or carpool but gladly use me for their "babysitter."

If you want a better experience for your daughter you can switch troops or maybe run a troop yourself instead of complaining.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are my observations: as girls mature, they begin to question more things on a philosophical level that requires the adult to be more involved, have good listening skills, really enjoy kids in that age range and be willing to engage in a two way conversation. What often happens are the moms really just want things to be a case of I am telling you what to do, so do it and don't question. I realize not all troop leaders or troops are like this but many are.

Many parents put their DDs in the troop in the hope of their DD gain social skills but over the years the girls remain socially awkward because GS leaders are not likely to be providing the kind of guidance socially such girls would need. It makes it more difficult for all the girls involved.

Lastly, other activities become more important. Sports in particular require more attention and practices. So it becomes a choice of what the girl wants to do more or what the parents wants more.

GS leaders are volunteers though and not a group of licensed psychologists. You must be very diplomatic when speaking to other people's children as a volunteer. Some of the kids who need guidance are not the socially awkward ones. The kids who participate in bullying also need guidance but they don't think so. They view their social skills as being wonderful because they're not being excluded. As a leader, I've also had kids who simply don't think they need to participate in what the group is doing, i.e., if they signed up for camping, they get assigned a duty and some of the kids just don't think they should have to do chores or take on responsibility. Or they want to do something unsafe. So a leader may be in the position of having to say, this is what you're doing.

Our troop leader is a SAHM and a "licensed middle school teacher" (as she stressed over and over again) so she pontificated regularly how her troop is different. Sure, it was so different that her daughter bullied multiple girls in the troop. Then, if a parent volunteer had the gumption to say something, the troop leader defended her daughter and verbally attacked the parent volunteer.

No thanks. My daughter did not need it, did not like it, and had enough experience with bullies at school. As for me, I deal with enough crazy people at work - I don't need to be forced to volunteer to deal with them on my time off, too.

Anonymous wrote:Here are my observations: as girls mature, they begin to question more things on a philosophical level that requires the adult to be more involved, have good listening skills, really enjoy kids in that age range and be willing to engage in a two way conversation. What often happens are the moms really just want things to be a case of I am telling you what to do, so do it and don't question. I realize not all troop leaders or troops are like this but many are.

Many parents put their DDs in the troop in the hope of their DD gain social skills but over the years the girls remain socially awkward because GS leaders are not likely to be providing the kind of guidance socially such girls would need. It makes it more difficult for all the girls involved.

Lastly, other activities become more important. Sports in particular require more attention and practices. So it becomes a choice of what the girl wants to do more or what the parents wants more.

GS leaders are volunteers though and not a group of licensed psychologists. You must be very diplomatic when speaking to other people's children as a volunteer. Some of the kids who need guidance are not the socially awkward ones. The kids who participate in bullying also need guidance but they don't think so. They view their social skills as being wonderful because they're not being excluded. As a leader, I've also had kids who simply don't think they need to participate in what the group is doing, i.e., if they signed up for camping, they get assigned a duty and some of the kids just don't think they should have to do chores or take on responsibility. Or they want to do something unsafe. So a leader may be in the position of having to say, this is what you're doing.

Anonymous wrote:I think it really depends on the quality of the leadership and the program. If the leaders for older girls are doing the same old-same old (crafts, camping, horse back riding, cookie sales) a lot of girls get bored or just want to try new activities. They like Girl Scouts, but they've been doing the same thing since they were Daisies. If the older girls' troops have better programming and do more stuff, the girls stay longer.

I agree with you on throwing out the crafts and cookie sales (although selling the cookies can fund some pretty good high adventure activities) but why throw out horseback riding and camping? What is an example of "better programming"?

Anonymous wrote:My mom was a leader, and she made me do it until 5th grade, I think. It's considered dorky.

Because sports are cool. And if you're not a talented athlete, you aren't cool anyway. Drama is also dorky. Too bad the peer group gets to decide that camping and social service projects are dorky. I get so tired of the tyranny of the "popular" kids' opinions.

My mom was a leader, and she made me do it until 5th grade, I think. It's considered dorky.

Anonymous wrote:Because it is totally dorky. I am so grateful neither if my kids wanted to do boy or Girl Scouts. I was a brownie -fun. Then a Girl Scout. That fun lasted about 2 years, maybe. Yuck. All that conformity and having to do what everyone else is doing, hideous uncomfortable uniforms, such middle America values.

There are so any other activities for building the skills scouting purports to focus on: sports teams for leadership and working with others, sleep away camp for outdoorsy skills, music and art lessons for the arts, etc... Scouting just seems so outdated and, well, honestly, middle America in that negative, bland, boring, conformist, uninspired, way.

Really, like what? What if your kid is at a giant school where she isn't good enough to play group sports? Why do you deride it so? I wish we still had our troop. Ours broke up at 6th grade and I really am kinda mad that we were never told that this was about to happen or maybe we could have trained to become leaders and taken it over ourselves.

In 7th grade, I was beginning to want to quit because my troop leader moved away and the new troop leader decided that there would be significantly less camping and more work on a silver award (I think that's what it was called - not sure). When I was in middle school (mid 1990s), it was considered uncool to still be in Girl Scouts. A PP got it right that it was considered goody goody. That pushed me over the edge and I quit in 8th grade for that reason. I'd been enjoying it less and the troop had gotten much smaller, I think there were less than 10 girls in it when I quit.

I stayed in Girl Scouts into high school, mostly because my friends were all in my troop. It was more of a social club at that point than anything else, but we always called it "youth group" in front of others, because somehow it was more acceptable for us to all belong to a church than be scouts ("non-demoninational church for those who like to wear green.").

I could see how if older girls just don't have buddies in their troop anymore, it's not worth the effort or potential teasing. My daughter is not old enough yet, but we will definitely be encouraging her to join and stick with it. It was a valuable experience for me.

The leaders, myself included, didn't have the steam to keep it going. If it was my full-time job it would be great. The kids are also so busy with school and other activities, it was hard to make the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the smaller troops become simply a club for the leaders daughters. And there is quite a bit of bullying in GS troops. I called the regional leader and she confirmed this was a real problem. Volunteer organization. But most girls just get very busy in 5th and 6th grade with their own activities, and do not have time. It is up to the leaders to limit the workload, and sometimes that does not happen.

Just wondering if you'd tell the soccer coach or dance teacher -- "it's up to you to limit the workload"? If you consider being a soccer player/competitive dancer/girl scout an accomplishment then YOU have to step up to the challenge presented, right?

I'm genuinely asking why you would expect scouts to be minimally invasive? Is your primary motivation to have a social group? (nothing wrong with that desire -- it's just not what the official scouting program purports to be if the leader is following any of the girls' programming with awards/badges/journeys).

I would not say that to a coach or dance teacher. But there are different levels for both. Scouting is the same way. If the troop wants to put in a lot of work, that is one thing, but if they do not, then it is up to the leader to either understand that or expect girls to drop. Our troop had a meeting each year about how much time/energy they wanted to put in. Everyone agreed and the troop worked well.

I don't have a girl, and I haven't been a girl scout for a very long time, but I think that 10 - 13 is an age when kids are naturally pruning some of their interests and intensifying others. Kids drop lots of activities at this age, and shift that time to a smaller set. For example, a child that age might choose to go from once a week violin lessons to violin, music theory and two orchestra rehearsals a week (while dropping girl scouts, soccer and church choir).

It sounds like a lot of people have negative experiences with scouts, but I think even if one had a wonderful troop, they'd find that some girls would leave because they decided to play club soccer, or get super involved in theater, or take their swimming to the next level, and they no longer had time. Meanwhile, other girls would be dropping their drum lessons so they can spend more time on Girl Scouts.