Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that many of you have bourgie tastes, middle-class budgets and racist attitudes. Stop pretending to be hipsters and go back to your small towns and boring suburbs in Ohio.

You know, those small towns and boring suburbs often have far better schools, safe neighborhoods at affordable prices, and a sense of community that doesn't exist here. And regardless of what people in the Beltway Bubble think, there are decent jobs to be had outside of Metro DC.

Asswipe.

Don't let us stop you from leaving. Just don't bore us with your endless tales of woe when all you really need to do is make the same types of compromises that people coming to large urban areas have made for generations.

Fucking spoiled brats.

Honestly, I think the issue is as much about having too many option as it is about having too few.

I think people in DC get the idea that school needs to be "perfect". They reject schools because they are "not an option", or because the test scores aren't exactly what they want, or because they have too many students, or because you have to live in a certain neighborhood to get in, and that neighborhood has a "bad commute" or "isn't walkable" or requires that they live in an apartment.

The reality is that most people in this country simply send their kid to the school that serves their neighborhood. Most of those schools have both good things and bad things about them. They might be a small school but with huge class sizes, or they might be all about reading and math with very little outdoor time or specials, or whatever.

Similarly, people in these communities don't have the huge array of housing choices that we can imagine. Many rural communities have no walkable neighborhoods. Many people right now are stuck in underwater mortgages, and community a hundred miles to the only work they can find. They also aren't making $250K because those jobs don't exist in rural areas.

Stop whining and choose one of the choices available to you. You've got plenty. As a middle income family living in DC EOTP, you've got plenty of options.

1) You can stay in your neighborhood, send your child to the local public school, and provide enrichment.

2) You can stay in your neighborhood, and home school (note: if your family has an income of $150K, then presumably one of you is making at least $75K, which is enough to live on in this city).

3) You can move to PG county, save a lot on housing, send your kid to public school and use the money for enrichment.

4) You can move to PG county, save a lot on housing, and use it to send your child to a parochial or other lower cost private option.

5) You can move to an apartment (not one with a pullout, but a nice 2 or 3 BR) WOTP, or in a close in suburb like Takoma Park, Bethesda, or North Arlington, and send your kid to the highly regarded public schools in those areas.

6) You can move farther out, put up with a slightly longer commute, and have a single family house and a public school that is as good as what you'd get in the mythical small town that you dream of.

How is that not enough options?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in DC and are middle class. Our neighborhood ES is not a good option, at least past the lower grades. We had ridiculously high waitlist numbers on the OOB lottery. We were waitlisted at every charter we applied to. We are now faced with either sending DC to a fairly crappy public school, or applying to a private and hoping for financial aid. Or moving to the suburbs; even then, we are facing huge public elementaries. I know we are not the only ones in this situation.

Yep. This is why we are moving back to our hometown as soon as one of us can lock down a good job. The economics of living here don't make sense if you can't pull in $250K a year or more, which is just insane. In our case the financial pressure is impacting our family size because schooling (and the cost of it) is such a major issue, and it is a major source of frustration for both of us. DC's system is fucked up beyond belief.

I totally agree!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not view sleeping on a pull out as a viable option. Sorry. I do not think that makes me either a snob or an uncaring parent. Agree with OP about the terrible choices for schools for middle income families- And I live few miles outside beltway in MD so not exactly A "short" commute.

I don't get this. People in cities live in apartments and people in suburbs live in houses. Isn't that just the way it is? When our family moved here from small-town Pennsylvania, we traded in a big suburban house for a small city condo. That's what density means.

Apartment living is not equivalend to sleeping on a pull out. I would be happy to live in an appartment with my family. I would not be happy to sleep on a pull out on a regular basis.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. My job is downtown; it would be hard to find something in my industry in the suburbs, but I wouldn't mind a short commute. PP, this has nothing to do with tastes or attitudes. Also not trying to be a hipster, nor am I from a small town. I'm DC born and bred. Are you from Ohio? I hear its nice there.

I'm not actually trying to elicit the typical bitchy comments this forum tends to generate, so maybe go troll the comments section of some Lean In type article.

I love it when someone makes a bitchy comment, then advises that they are not trying to elicit bitchy comments so please take them elsewhere. It's so much easier to be a bitch if no one is allowed to be a bitch back. That's right. P.S. No bitching please.

The first post wasn't bitchy, just incredibly whiny in that "OMG, wouldn't you die, too, if your choices are sending your kids to a non-JKLM school in DC or moving to BFE" way. Cry me a river.

A lot of moms on homeschooling forums complain that their special needs child isn't getting enough help or that their gifted child doesn't have a program for them or any peers at their level. In this area at least, those are not concerns many parents have.

NP. I'm curious as to what makes a "crappy ES"? Unless there is no teaching going on because of bad behaving kids and teacher has to divert attention, what is the deal? I think as a parent I can supplement enough at home to make up for any shortcomings at the ES level. When my DD was in ES, I taught her cursive, did extra math worksheets, taught multiplication, read above level books, etc. Really it's quite easy to overcome the academic shortcomings at the ES level. MS and beyond is a bit harder.

10:03 Sure, living outside this area can be cheaper and there are some great schools, but go on any homeschool forum and you'll read about moms with kids in small town schools that were pathetic and gave no other option besides homeschooling. Of the about 50 people I know living in a small town or city at least 1/4 of them have had problems finding jobs and had to move to a larger city area or have someone have a long commute to another town or city. If you are smart and can get a good steady job in a small town, by all means, move there. You'll probably have a nicer house. I definitely have friends who love this type of living especially being near their families, but almost all have their children in private schools there because the publics are underperforming or have a husband with a long commute anyway. To say that this area sucks when the schools are all well rated, taxes in the suburbs are relatively low (at least compared to the Northeast), and there are jobs to be had for all, is only looking at things from one side. Your children aren't even in the school system yet so you're making assumptions about things that you don't really know well. Smaller towns need more people, so please move there if you can make it work. We live out in the Vienna/Fairfax area with many schools under 600 students. There's even a school near us under 300 students. Parents do have an hour commute to their job in the city, but they seem to be ok with it. Most also have jobs in the suburbs. Every place has it's compromises and yes, middle income families IMO should not be so concerned about having the best of everything, but should be more concerned with having a life that works for them.

Anonymous wrote:OP. My job is downtown; it would be hard to find something in my industry in the suburbs, but I wouldn't mind a short commute. PP, this has nothing to do with tastes or attitudes. Also not trying to be a hipster, nor am I from a small town. I'm DC born and bred. Are you from Ohio? I hear its nice there.

I'm not actually trying to elicit the typical bitchy comments this forum tends to generate, so maybe go troll the comments section of some Lean In type article.

I love it when someone makes a bitchy comment, then advises that they are not trying to elicit bitchy comments so please take them elsewhere. It's so much easier to be a bitch if no one is allowed to be a bitch back. That's right. P.S. No bitching please.

To 9:58 who replied to me - sure and if I were putting such a huge premium on being in the city then the co do may make sense. My point was that I do not live in the city - far from it - and live in 1 step up from a condo - a small oldish TH. but even being willing to do that, school options are bad. Agree with PP that tracking would help.

Anonymous wrote:It's all about compromise. If you live in a small town, you opt out of other amenities nearby and lots of jobs to choose from and possibly have to put up with a mediocre public school, but you get a great house and safe neighborhood. If you live in the suburbs, you have to drive, but have a nice house and probably a decent school system and safe neighborhood. If you live in the city, you compromise on living space, but can enjoy things close by and a short commute. DC has more than enough money for schools, so money isn't the issue. I think if their schools were better, DC would be more popular for families even with the reduced space. It's hard to "have it all" but if you can compromise and give up worrying about the smaller stuff, you can make any of these work on a middle income salary.

When did "making it work" become the dream? Oh, well, I'm sacrificing important things I want in my life, but at least I'm "making it work!" I'm sure that's how all of the non-rich people in DC think, for sure.

Anonymous wrote:Don't take this the wrong way OP, but it seems like you want it all...short commute, good public schools and affordable housing. Unfortunately, it is difficult to get all 3 in this area. Middle income parents have viable options - if they are willing to sacrifice one of the other factors. But I know very few middle icome parents in this area that can achieve the trifecta.

In this area being the operative words. This is achievable elsewhere, so unless your job is tied to DC, moving away is a perfectly viable options. There are lots of other great places to live.

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that many of you have bourgie tastes, middle-class budgets and racist attitudes. Stop pretending to be hipsters and go back to your small towns and boring suburbs in Ohio.

You know, those small towns and boring suburbs often have far better schools, safe neighborhoods at affordable prices, and a sense of community that doesn't exist here. And regardless of what people in the Beltway Bubble think, there are decent jobs to be had outside of Metro DC.

Asswipe.

Anonymous wrote:I do not view sleeping on a pull out as a viable option. Sorry. I do not think that makes me either a snob or an uncaring parent. Agree with OP about the terrible choices for schools for middle income families- And I live few miles outside beltway in MD so not exactly A "short" commute.

I don't get this. People in cities live in apartments and people in suburbs live in houses. Isn't that just the way it is? When our family moved here from small-town Pennsylvania, we traded in a big suburban house for a small city condo. That's what density means.

It sounds like the school options you have do not compare favorably to the options you grew up with or the options you were expecting. It's hard to say if they are objectively bad choices, but if you can't live with them, then move. Don't buy into the hype that all schools in the suburbs are huge. There are 133 elementary schools in Montgomery County, for example, so that's a lot of choices. I work downtown as well, and have a 30 minute (non-rush) or 50 minute (rush) commute from a close-in suburb with a small school we like. This is just a very popular metro area to live in and so there is going to be competition for the close-in housing and schooling. I think it's only a problem if you start comparing it to smaller metro areas or to earlier eras.