How is using test scores, parent recommendations, teacher recommendations, school recommendations, and report cards, rather than just test scores, "social engineering"?

And what do you think the goal of this "engineering" is?

That's below the median of the 50 kids accepted, not the 500 who took the test.

This not true. 500 kids did not take the test for entrance into CSES-HGC that exhibited the highest median score acceptance rates in the County. Other posters from other centers have confirmed the median values for the other HGC-centers and their cluster elementary schools draw. It seems the poster is stating for the draw pool taking the test for CSES-HGC entrance the test is too easy (median scores very high for accepted students).

When you talk to the kids they say it was a very simple test (including non quantitative portions)-- largely single and double digit arithmetic manipulations. This approach is very similar to the low bar for differentiation (if any) in the current MCPS elementary school classrooms. Sounds like pitching home run soft balls to pending fourth grade students?

Some national talent searches use Explore, Act and/or SAT (advanced tests) to truly differentiate and spread out these scores. MCPS should learn from the Talent searches' 3 decades of testing research about valid tests for this group of students.

The type of MCPS test gives the HGC leadership flexibility and cover for social engineering (e.g., relying on the nebulous combination of scores from a truly non challenging test, parent recommendation, teacher recommendation, school recommendation and "variably assigned" proportion of ES to P on 3rd grade report cards).

How does the 60 points relate to the approx 120-130 point range people are mentioning? My understanding is that this test was specifically designed to differentiate the top of the pack..who are usually the ones that self-select for the test.

Anonymous wrote:

I have heard some parents prep their kids for the test. Could it be that there is more of that at cold spring than elsewhere?

In fact, many of the students had perfect scores (60 out of 60 correct) on the Q section since a score of 56 correct out of 60 was well below the median for this group. What is the difference between a 56 and a 60? I'm sure the confidence intervals for those scores overlap and there is no difference. The bar is set so low and the distribution of scores is so skewed to the right (high end) resulting in reduction of that "achievement" gap. This allows the system to use the other more subjective criteria -- parent recommendation, teacher and school recommendation and grades with the new system where a judiciously placed ES by a third grade teacher (HGC gatekeeper) can achieve the ulterior purposes of the school. If a 56 out of 60 is well below the median are these kids all gifted or is MCPS afraid of administering a hard and difficult exam so that the scores will not spread out. Are they afraid of what they may find out about who is really gifted? Perhaps the low bar test is by premeditated design?

That's below the median of the 50 kids accepted, not the 500 who took the test.

correction: a hard and difficult exam (well above grade level) will separate the wheat from the chafe a low bar assessment where 56 out of 60 is well below the median simply mixes the wheat with the chafe and provides no useful information


"In fact, many of the students had perfect scores (60 out of 60 correct) on the Q section since a score of 56 correct out of 60 was well below the median for this group. What is the difference between a 56 and a 60? I'm sure the confidence intervals for those scores overlap and there is no difference. The bar is set so low and the distribution of scores is so skewed to the right (high end) resulting in reduction of that "achievement" gap. This allows the system to use the other more subjective criteria -- parent recommendation, teacher and school recommendation and grades with the new system where a judiciously placed ES by a third grade teacher (HGC gatekeeper) can achieve the ulterior purposes of the school. If a 56 out of 60 is well below the median are these kids all gifted or is MCPS afraid of administering a hard and difficult exam so that the scores will spread out. Are they afraid of what they may find out about who is really "gifted"? Perhaps the low bar test is by premeditated design?"
'

I have heard some parents prep their kids for the test. Could it be that there is more of that at cold spring than elsewhere?

In fact, many of the students had perfect scores (60 out of 60 correct) on the Q section since a score of 56 correct out of 60 was well below the median for this group. What is the difference between a 56 and a 60? I'm sure the confidence intervals for those scores overlap and there is no difference. The bar is set so low and the distribution of scores is so skewed to the right (high end) resulting in reduction of that "achievement" gap. This allows the system to use the other more subjective criteria -- parent recommendation, teacher and school recommendation and grades with the new system where a judiciously placed ES by a third grade teacher (HGC gatekeeper) can achieve the ulterior purposes of the school. If a 56 out of 60 is well below the median are these kids all gifted or is MCPS afraid of administering a hard and difficult exam so that the scores will not spread out. Are they afraid of what they may find out about who is really gifted? Perhaps the low bar test is by premeditated design?

Anonymous wrote:How does enrollment in the HGC impact admission to top private schools for middle school. I would assume it would be an advantage. Is this correct? Does anyone have specific experience?

We turned down the HGC because we knew 4th and 5th were strong at our home school. Two years later he was accepted into a top private for middle school. A friend had the same pattern: turned down the HGC and ended up at a top private for middle. Anecdotal, not data, I know.

My guess would be that a kid who can qualify for a HGC will be very competitive if you decide to go private, because you know s/he tests well, excels academically, and can write. I don't think the private schools care so much whether you attended an HGC or one of the many excellent elementary schools in Montgomery County.

Anonymous wrote:I have heard some parents prep their kids for the test. Could it be that there is more of that at cold spring than elsewhere?

How do they know what to prep for? I had no idea what the test was.

A parent at CS told me that all the kids there prep for the MS exam..which I did not hear any talk of at Barnsley..but maybe I don't talk to the right people.

I have heard some parents prep their kids for the test. Could it be that there is more of that at cold spring than elsewhere?

Anonymous wrote:Cold Spring Medians:

131 (v) 138 (Q) 134 (Nonverbal)

So the cold spring median for Q is 11 points higher than at CCES? On the same test? What were the medians at Pinecrest?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chevy Chase Median SAS of selected students:
Verbal 132 Quantitative 127 and Nonverbal 127

My kid's scores were V- 112, Q-117, and NV-128

Number of correct answers/total:

V-49/65, Q-49/60, NV-60/65

4 ES's on report cards

My kid didn't get accepted and has been crying eyes out the past two days. I had no idea it meant so much to my child. It's heartbreaking to see.

I feel your pain -- my DC reacted much the same way two years ago (not accepted or waitlisted for HGC even though DC achieved the median score in one category, was slightly above the median score in another, and was way above the median score in the third, and also had strong grades and teacher recommendations). After crying it out (because, at bottom, it never feels good to be rejected especially when your BFFs or friend(en)emies are getting high-fives for their acceptance), my DC got back to business and ended up being accepted at both Eastern and Takoma Park (and because of the HGC experience, didn't run around school broadcasting this news). I hope that your DC is feeling better soon and, since Spring Break is here, that all the talk of "who's in, who's out" will have died out by the time classes resume.

You and other posters have been very kind. I appreciate it. It's a life lesson to learn and grow from.

My son was rejected too, and later accepted to both MS magnets. He is now in the Blair math magnet.

Many qualified kids are rejected from all these programs.

How does enrollment in the HGC impact admission to top private schools for middle school. I would assume it would be an advantage. Is this correct? Does anyone have specific experience?

My child did not get into our HGC. Child had ES's and scored well on the test. Child was devastated.

Child eventually recovered, worked hard and then applied and got into Eastern, where non-HGC child has maintained a straight A average.

Having said that, there are no guarantees child will get into any of the high school magnet programs.

We know several straight A HGC alums who did not get into Eastern or Takoma and are back at their home middle schools.

If your child got into a HGC, congratulations.

If your child did not, do not fret. It is an opportunity for them to learn how to bounce back from disappointment. I do not think my child would have done as well or have worked as hard if she had gotten into our HGC. Child had something to prove to herself.