I'm glad you enjoyed your Dartmouth years, as my nephew is enjoying his now. As I said, Dartmouth has a lot to offer, but the campus vibe is not for everyone. Similarly, when folks ask me about Colulmbia, the school my kids attend, I say that they love it, but it's not for everyone. Not judging, simply noting that there are different stroke for different folks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is dmouth the most laxbro of all ivies? sounds like it.

*yuck*

a great school in some ways, but, yes, very laxbro;

my nephew's there now and when we have visited almost every guy you see is wearing a backwards baseball cap

if that's your cuppa tea, fine, but if not, there aren't many alternatives in Hanover, NH; our nephew advised our son, "On Saturday night, you're either drunk off your ass or watching other people get drunk off their asses."

I think the fact you judge these kids by their hats shows a sort of close-minded attitude. One of the things I learned at Dartmouth was not to judge a book by its cover. Most of the kids there were so much more than what they seemed on the surface. Had they not been, it is unlikely they would have had what it took to apply to and get into this school to begin with. I remember being floored by the "dumb jock" football player on my hall when he opened his mouth in my Shakespeare class and made a cogent and insightful observation about Richard III. Or the guy I worked with at the dining hall who was on the crew team, looked like a Greek god, and was in the frattiest of frats. But he was studying engineering and would talk constantly about ideas he had to bring clean drinking water to communities in Africa where it wasn't readily available. Or my Deadhead friend who went on to become an incredible and accomplished doctors, who is one of the most compassionate people I know. My roommate seemed like a major sorority ditz when I first met her, but it turned out she was smart as a whip, took an insanely difficult math and science course load, and breezed through it all. Or a guy I knew who came from incredible wealth and dressed like the ultimate prepster but turned out to be really nice and down to earth. Or my friend who showed up in combat boots and fatigues the first week of school who turned out to be well versed in Greek and Latin and played the piano beautifully. Or the girl I knew who came from a tough urban neighborhood, seemed really rough around the edges, but who fell in love with the romance languages and became fluent in French and Italian and could recite Baudelaire. And on and on and on.

As far as Saturday nights go, it seems to me your nephew is carrying on the classic Dartmouth tradition of talking up the "play hard" reputation of the school. I was frequently guilty of that myself. People had this expectation that I must have been raging all weekend long because that is what Dartmouth kids do, right? So I would share those stories because people seemed to eat it up, and frankly I liked the attention it got me when I was 19 or 20 years old. I didn't usually talk about the Saturday night shifts I spent working at the dining hall or checking out books in the reserve corridor (and trust me, plenty of students were in the library on Saturday nights), or the nights I spent in my dorm room with friends playing Trivial Pursuit, poker or watching videos while scarfing down chicken sandwiches. I went to tons of performances at the Hop and sat through more pretentious foreign films than I care to admit, saw many comedians and bands at Collis, and yes, went to my share of frat parties, where I would spend most of the night on the dance floor.

Finally, this Saturday night alone, your nephew can go to an Alvin Ailey dance performance, see the films Zero Dark Thirty, Amour, or Passion for Snow, attend a performance of the Dartmouth Wind Symphony, attend a Women's basketball or Men's ice hockey game, or catch up on some studying in the library (open til 2am on a Saturday night for a reason). That's just for starters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is dmouth the most laxbro of all ivies? sounds like it.

*yuck*

a great school in some ways, but, yes, very laxbro;

my nephew's there now and when we have visited almost every guy you see is wearing a backwards baseball cap

if that's your cuppa tea, fine, but if not, there aren't many alternatives in Hanover, NH; our nephew advised our son, "On Saturday night, you're either drunk off your ass or watching other people get drunk off their asses."

And don't forget...the tuition to do that "fun" and "educational" stuff is $55,000 per year!

Anonymous wrote:is dmouth the most laxbro of all ivies? sounds like it.

*yuck*

a great school in some ways, but, yes, very laxbro;

my nephew's there now and when we have visited almost every guy you see is wearing a backwards baseball cap

if that's your cuppa tea, fine, but if not, there aren't many alternatives in Hanover, NH; our nephew advised our son, "On Saturday night, you're either drunk off your ass or watching other people get drunk off their asses."

Anonymous wrote:From my experience there, it is clear the negative side is there, but many students also avoid it - join no greek organization, or go to a calmer one. I think this may be easier for females than males. The Government Dept ("Govy") has a strong IR subfield, though has had many faculty moving in and then out largely due to spousal issues. Still, has some of the best teachers on the campus. I think it is a great place. You can have a comparable experience at many SLACs. So my conclusion is that Dartmouth is not the only place to get that SLAC good education, but shouldn't be ruled out because of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bunch.

lol please expound. Wife Swap/swinging going on in the Dartmouth IR department between faculty?

From my experience there, it is clear the negative side is there, but many students also avoid it - join no greek organization, or go to a calmer one. I think this may be easier for females than males. The Government Dept ("Govy") has a strong IR subfield, though has had many faculty moving in and then out largely due to spousal issues. Still, has some of the best teachers on the campus. I think it is a great place. You can have a comparable experience at many SLACs. So my conclusion is that Dartmouth is not the only place to get that SLAC good education, but shouldn't be ruled out because of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bunch.

is dmouth the most laxbro of all ivies? sounds like it.

*yuck*

Anonymous wrote:The thing I found most disturbing about the Rolling Stone article was that it made it seem like the hazers are connected to powerful alumni who can help a great deal with their future. The article made it seem like there was pressure to pursue that aspect of the social life at Dartmouth, particularly if you want a future in business. It was this connection with powerful alums that made the hazing/heavy drinking culture so entrenched.

I have no idea if this is true, but I would be interested in hearing from peeps who do know. There is a drinking culture lurking at all colleges, somewhere, but the article made it seem like what made it different at Dartmouth was the way it had become institutionalized because of the connection between those particular frats and alums. Any truth to that?

I took that away from the Rolling Stone article, too. That you pretty much have to join a frat if you want a future in business. As with much in the article, however, it was hard to tell what was true, and what was either the kid in the article justifying his choices, or the writer sensationalizing to make a more shocking story. So that's probably the major question I came away with, too.

The thing I found most disturbing about the Rolling Stone article was that it made it seem like the hazers are connected to powerful alumni who can help a great deal with their future. The article made it seem like there was pressure to pursue that aspect of the social life at Dartmouth, particularly if you want a future in business. It was this connection with powerful alums that made the hazing/heavy drinking culture so entrenched.

I have no idea if this is true, but I would be interested in hearing from peeps who do know. There is a drinking culture lurking at all colleges, somewhere, but the article made it seem like what made it different at Dartmouth was the way it had become institutionalized because of the connection between those particular frats and alums. Any truth to that?

Thank you so much, 12:32! I will be sure to share this information with my daughter. I knew that my post would elicit a thoughtful response, based on my own experiences with Dartmouth alums.

I am a second-generation Dartmouth alum who graduated in the 90's. First, congratulations to your daughter. Whether or not she chooses to attend Dartmouth, it sounds like she has worked hard and done well, and I'm sure you are very proud of her.

Second, I will say that I loved my Dartmouth experience and have a deep and abiding fondness for, and loyalty to, my college. It is a beautiful campus, the quality of the facilities and the staff are extraordinary, and it prepared me well for life. Many of my classmates have gone on to do amazing and wonderful things -- there is no "stereotypical" Dartmouth graduate. If you google a list of Dartmouth alumni, you will see the diversity of careers and the level of success they've attained.

Having said all of that, I will not deny that Dartmouth has had a long-standing and deeply-entrenched problem with alcohol and the Greek system. It was there when I was a student, and I'm sorry to say that from my understanding, it remains an ongoing problem. However, I would emphasize that I personally did not experience this side of life at Dartmouth, other than as an occasional observer, nor did MANY of my friends. Yes I attended frat parties and drank, and I belonged to a coed house for a couple years, and I heard plenty of unpleasant stories about what kids got up to after hours in the frat basements. But many, I would say the majority of us, exercised good judgment and restraint. This was a small part of my life at Dartmouth. My focus was on my studies, my part time job, my community activities, and my extracurriculars.

I think my "partying/drinking" experiences were comparable to those of my friends who attended, for example, UVA, William and Mary, JMU, Mason, BU, Middlebury, Cal, UMass, Mt. Holyoke, and many other schools. That is, these issues are not unique to Dartmouth, but they do get a lot of press and I'm sure there are schools were drinking is far less prevalent. I think you should prepare your daughter to deal with these issues no matter where she goes. If she has a strong sense of herself, is not the type of kid who is unduly concerned with "fitting in" or "being cool" she will find a large group of like minded people at Dartmouth and will be able to avail herself of the wonderful opportunities it provides.

Finally, I will say that the press loves a good Dartmouth story. When I went there, Dartmouth had been getting a lot of bad publicity based on the conduct of a few students on the Dartmouth Review who tore down a shanty-town anti-apartheid protestors had erected on the Green. Everyone said, "how can you go to that conservative, racist school." They missed the salient fact that there were students there passionate enough be protesting against apartheid to begin with. I arrived at Dartmouth and found that those folks, not the handful of Review staffers, were the dominant voice. I think if your daughter attends she will find a campus engaged in a lively dialogue about gender roles, alcohol abuse, and similar issues of the day.

Here is an interesting link which will provide an insight into the diversity of careers Dartmouth women have followed:

http://dartmouth.org/greenways/program.html

Anonymous wrote:She's received a "likely letter," which stated that she'll be accepted on the official acceptance date. It's a new process (she's not an athlete; a few students receive these letters). We were really thrilled and excited!

congratulations. I'm sure she'll love it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we are familiar with the article and with College Confidential. I agree that the Rolling Stone article is not representative of most kids' experience at the school. And I think the school will be even more concerned and proactive about preventing these issues now.

A very mild response given the tone of the previous posts. Congratulations.

We looked at the school and declined based in large part on the hazing. The Rolling Stone article is but one. There are numberous confirmed incidents of hazing. The percentage of those in the undergrad involved in the frats etc. is far greater than 40%. When we took our tour, even the guide admitted the particiation is in the 8% numbers.

These posts are as one said..all about the lure of attneding Ivy. The key point is to be sure the school is a good fit. Only the student really knows for sure. Godd luck but there is, has been and will continue to be, as long as the frats are let to run themeselves, hazing.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we are familiar with the article and with College Confidential. I agree that the Rolling Stone article is not representative of most kids' experience at the school. And I think the school will be even more concerned and proactive about preventing these issues now.

A very mild response given the tone of the previous posts. Congratulations.

Yes, we are familiar with the article and with College Confidential. I agree that the Rolling Stone article is not representative of most kids' experience at the school. And I think the school will be even more concerned and proactive about preventing these issues now.