Anonymous
02/14/2013 12:59
Subject: Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Whatever. The point has been well made that Virginians are paying millions of dollars to keep UVA and the other state-run colleges and universities afloat. Also, if you are in a state public school and do not have the stats required by UVA - even as a stretch - the high school will not support you. Remember they are the ones writing the letters and having counselors send grade reports. If you are not UVA material, they (the high school) is not going to support the application - their credibility is on the line. They are processing at least three letters of recommendaitons for 550 kids and they are not going to write letters of recommendation to UVA for all 550. So there is NO sense of entitlement or "right" that NoVA parents feel about getting into UVA as 10:42 alleges. Most of us have given up.
Anonymous
02/14/2013 12:53
Subject: Re:Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No. There's nothing stellar about UVA that Maryland or any other flagship state school can't offer.
I would leave DC for the crappy public schools, though. Hey, I did leave DC for the crappy public schools.
UVA's brand power outshines UMD by wide, wide margin. And I went to UMD, so I should know.
Yes, I understand what you're saying. I went to a "brand" school. And other friends of mine went to UMD. Those in the UMD honors college nonetheless went to top tier grad schools (e.g., Harvard Law; Georgetown Medicine; Stanford Econ; Yale Bio-chem; Michigan Psych). Maryland is a top-tier research institution, and with a couple of name profs writing recommendations for you--and with excellent entrance exam scores (let's face it: those count a ton)--you're in like flynn.
And if what you care about is getting a job in the DC metro area (hot hot hot), being close to DC counts for a ton.
I'm just sayin': Maryland's got a lot going for it.
Anonymous
02/14/2013 12:41
Subject: Re:Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Pp I think you are correct. A very small (under 20%) of uva's budget is from the state. Could be 0 if they didn't have in state tuition.
And I am not sure why the gmu pp thinks that going to the top state university is a right for all Langley and McLean students. Heck that's not even true in MD anymore and UMD is way larger.
I'm the OOS poster. My kid has a 4.65 weighted GPA, high SATs and will have 10 APs. So not totally out of line with the top group at Langley (although I know your grading system is different). IF DC gets in I don't think he will be diluting your gene pool too much.
OK, smarty pants, let's take your figures - which are wrong - UVA's operating budget exceeds 2.3 billion dollars.
http://www.virginia.edu/budget/Docs/Budget%20Summaries/2009-10BudgetSummary.pdf. Since that pie chart comes from 2009, let's say UVA's operating costs are now 2.5 billion dollars. Twenty percent of that you allege is provided by the state of VA. Since you are so smart you do the math. Who is paying for this? My income tax.
Perhaps. But a PP said $16k property tax, not income.
Anonymous
02/14/2013 12:38
Subject: Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
12:18, I'm a NP. I appreciated your thoughtful response earlier (at 3AM?), and there is no need to get so hostile with the other poster.
I went undergrad to W&M and got my graduate degree at UVA. I am also active in fundraising for both. The Commonwealth of Virginia gives far less now than it did when I was in school, and the colleges are desperately trying to increase their endowments. I would not count on the state reducing funding to their flagships in favor of GMU or others. Rather, I would expect that their contributions to all the state schools will fall.
OOS students now pay almost as much as they do for private colleges while the school tries to honor their status as a state school and keep in-state tuitions low. But plenty of NoVa residents (not their parents, fyi) still apply, and diversity is far different than a narrow view that geography is all that counts - or race, gender, etc. There is no harm in applying, and it seems defeatist to tell good students that they don't have a chance.
I went undergrad to W&M and got my graduate degree at UVA. I am also active in fundraising for both. The Commonwealth of Virginia gives far less now than it did when I was in school, and the colleges are desperately trying to increase their endowments. I would not count on the state reducing funding to their flagships in favor of GMU or others. Rather, I would expect that their contributions to all the state schools will fall.
OOS students now pay almost as much as they do for private colleges while the school tries to honor their status as a state school and keep in-state tuitions low. But plenty of NoVa residents (not their parents, fyi) still apply, and diversity is far different than a narrow view that geography is all that counts - or race, gender, etc. There is no harm in applying, and it seems defeatist to tell good students that they don't have a chance.
Anonymous
02/14/2013 12:36
Subject: Re:Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:Pp I think you are correct. A very small (under 20%) of uva's budget is from the state. Could be 0 if they didn't have in state tuition.
And I am not sure why the gmu pp thinks that going to the top state university is a right for all Langley and McLean students. Heck that's not even true in MD anymore and UMD is way larger.
I'm the OOS poster. My kid has a 4.65 weighted GPA, high SATs and will have 10 APs. So not totally out of line with the top group at Langley (although I know your grading system is different). IF DC gets in I don't think he will be diluting your gene pool too much.
OK, smarty pants, let's take your figures - which are wrong - UVA's operating budget exceeds 2.3 billion dollars.
http://www.virginia.edu/budget/Docs/Budget%20Summaries/2009-10BudgetSummary.pdf. Since that pie chart comes from 2009, let's say UVA's operating costs are now 2.5 billion dollars. Twenty percent of that you allege is provided by the state of VA. Since you are so smart you do the math. Who is paying for this? My income tax.
Anonymous
02/14/2013 12:18
Subject: Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
"Other than the state owning the land, I'm pretty sure UVA is entirely self-sustaining from tuition/endowments"
Not true. The state still supports and also has complete control over the board, witness the recent Draga fiasco. The state is, however, trying to reduce funding to 8% and pull back, and route more money to GMU and the younger state schools. And for the snotty OSS poster with the perfect child, where do you think the money comes from to fund or partially fund these colleges and universities, especially those that are younger and not as self-sufficient as UVA? My VA income tax. What are you contributing to the system other than hostility and an obnoxious child? It is YOU who feels somehow entitled as a right to get snowflake into UVA or W&M. NoVA parents don't even bother applying because the stats are so against them.
Not true. The state still supports and also has complete control over the board, witness the recent Draga fiasco. The state is, however, trying to reduce funding to 8% and pull back, and route more money to GMU and the younger state schools. And for the snotty OSS poster with the perfect child, where do you think the money comes from to fund or partially fund these colleges and universities, especially those that are younger and not as self-sufficient as UVA? My VA income tax. What are you contributing to the system other than hostility and an obnoxious child? It is YOU who feels somehow entitled as a right to get snowflake into UVA or W&M. NoVA parents don't even bother applying because the stats are so against them.
Anonymous
02/14/2013 11:56
Subject: Re:Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:Pp I think you are correct. A very small (under 20%) of uva's budget is from the state. Could be 0 if they didn't have in state tuition.
And I am not sure why the gmu pp thinks that going to the top state university is a right for all Langley and McLean students. Heck that's not even true in MD anymore and UMD is way larger.
I'm the OOS poster. My kid has a 4.65 weighted GPA, high SATs and will have 10 APs. So not totally out of line with the top group at Langley (although I know your grading system is different). IF DC gets in I don't think he will be diluting your gene pool too much.
I never said that. Why so nasty? I was trying to kindly answer your question about difficulty of getting into UVA, W&M from NoVa versus OSS, and why Virginians would like to see more seats set aside for Virginians. See, the U.C. system where 90% of the seats go to Caifornians. Langley and McLean kids go everywhere. They certainly do not see UVA "as a right" - indeed, DC didn't even bother applying because the competition is so fierce.
Anonymous
02/14/2013 10:42
Subject: Re:Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Pp I think you are correct. A very small (under 20%) of uva's budget is from the state. Could be 0 if they didn't have in state tuition.
And I am not sure why the gmu pp thinks that going to the top state university is a right for all Langley and McLean students. Heck that's not even true in MD anymore and UMD is way larger.
I'm the OOS poster. My kid has a 4.65 weighted GPA, high SATs and will have 10 APs. So not totally out of line with the top group at Langley (although I know your grading system is different). IF DC gets in I don't think he will be diluting your gene pool too much.
And I am not sure why the gmu pp thinks that going to the top state university is a right for all Langley and McLean students. Heck that's not even true in MD anymore and UMD is way larger.
I'm the OOS poster. My kid has a 4.65 weighted GPA, high SATs and will have 10 APs. So not totally out of line with the top group at Langley (although I know your grading system is different). IF DC gets in I don't think he will be diluting your gene pool too much.
Anonymous
02/14/2013 10:16
Subject: Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:if the choice is $60K for GW or $20K for UVA (tuition, R&B), there is only one way to go.
We are longtime VA residents and the chances are far greater that our kids will be attending GW because they probably won't get into UVA. Big frowny face.
+100
Lifelong VA resident. UVA, Tech, William&Mary, JMU, GMU are uber, uber competitive to get into these days. My oldest nephew is in one this year, next nephew goes next year and so on...so I am hearing all about it from my sister. Her boys are TOP, TOP students and star athletes and it is near impossible to get into these place as a VA resident--competition is fierce.
The schools (and there was a big article in WashPost) prefer to select out of state students because they get a higher tuition from them. VA residents are pissed and want the schools to save a percentage of spots for VA residents---not in place and the schools don't want to. F*ckface UVA is the worst---they quote Thomas Jefferson as wanting a diverse university and have specific quota on the number of NoVA students they will accept even if they have better academic records than other students.
I wouldn't bank on your kid getting in--even if they are a star student so wouldn't necessarily consider a move.
I was under the impression, based on the info sessions at both W&M and UVA that there was a 1/3-2/3 OOS-in state balance. Based on the stats we were told it is harder to get in from OOS because there are more applicants but of course that's compared to VA overall. I'm sure if you carve out nova it's harder. I, for one, am glad we live OOS and my DC will be applying to both.
What has upset Virginians, and mostly in NOVA due to the xlnt FCPS school system, TJ, the sheer number of applicants and hordes of xlnt private schools, is that all of the Virginian colleges and universities have become so desirable and so competitive that in-state kids can't get in. If I have paid property taxes of $16,000 a year for 20 years, I would finally like to get some bang for my buck since I have been supporting these VA schools for two decades. I don't have the precise figures but I think the immediate poster above has the percentages about right. I am the previous poster whose DC is going to GMU in the fall (and, by the way, from Langley High that now takes at least a 3.7 and a composite ACT of 32 - no easy feat at Langley). I tried to find the exact statistics on the UVA and GMU websites but either I don't have the time to do a good search or the schools keep it in flux, but I think 60% of GMU's class is in-state and the remaining 40% out-of-state, paying the full $37K I mentioned above. The 1/3 - 2/3 OSS to IS statistic that the poster above says claims for UVA and William & Mary may be true --- and, if so, you can understand why Virginians are upset about it. Our local state representative has put in a bill that will increase the number of seats throughout entire VA system by 1,000. I told her the graduating class at Langley alone is 550, Mclean another 550, so adding 1,000 seats state-wide to a large no. of VA universities is just not going to be that much help. BTW there are a number of good Virginia colleges and universities that never get mentioned on the board - like Christopher Newport. Adding 1,000 seats statewide won't make any difference at all. GMU, alone, has the largest school population at 39,000.
If I have the percentages right, then the VA system stands in sharp contrast to the Univ. of California system (not to be confused with the Cal State system - don't even try to apply there from OOS - the Cal State Universities are oversubscribed by Californians). I talked recently with a U.C. Regent in California about the U.C. system and she says that 90% of the slots go to Californians. Only 10% go to OSS. However, California is bankrupt, so the legislature recently passed a bill that would allow another 5% OSS applications. But still, if you are in-state, you are in a vastly better place if you are applying to the xlnt UC system than you are as a Virginian applying to the VA system. The Regent also gave me the fees. The in-state pay a LOT more than we are for GMU. And the OSS pay almost the same as any for other private college or University . . . in other words, a LOT more than the Virginia system.
So you can see why a lot of Virginians are upset.
I do not know if it is harder to get in to William & Mary or UVA from OSS, as a PP said. I think we are comparing apples and oranges. It is a lot harder to get into UVA and William & Mary if you are in NoVa and especially if you are coming from Langley or McLean High School. The seats are very tightly controlled and limited from these schools so it takes an astonishing 4.4+ GPA, numerous AP credits, a brilliant essay and walk on water to get in. However, if you are applying from a public school in a poor area of the state, you may be a shoe-in. I have heard comments to the effect that UVA in-state students razz the out-of-state students, claiming that the Virginians' records were better but that the OSS are needed to keep the system afloat. I have no idea if that is true. All I can add to the discussion is that the VA market is really tough for in-state. Go early action. Make sure they know UVA or William & Mary is your top choice. Don't discount the other Virginia schools that you don't hear about as much, like Christopher Newport. Personally, I was astonished at GMU when we toured and it has been sitting in my backyard for two decades. The legislature has pumped a lot of money into that university over the last 12 years so I am not surprised it is no. 1 in U.S. News & World Report for up and coming university. The robotics, engineer, computer, and game design departments are new, state-of-the art and really connected with other serious computer science and game design schools -- there is one in Scotland that GMU has a new student exchange with. GMU's game design department (www.masongamedesign.org) is rivaled only by the Scottish University and Carnegie. The state legislature funnels money for those programs only to GMU in order to build up the computer science, engineering, game design programs not offered or not offered on the scale that GMU is going to provide. It is also now more difficult to get into GMU than JMU or Va. Tech. I applaud what the legislature is doing (trying to build up GMU and the other schools). I just wish there were more seats for Virginians throughout the system.
BTW, GMU has a strong board and xlnt contact with the tech. companies on the Dulles corridor. Not only do the graduates in certain get jobs - but the school of game design (sorry, that's the only college there that I know much about) gets outside contracts that the students can work on for pay while still in the College of serious game design. GMU also has a top flight engineering program. My U.C. Regent friend says the exiting major most in demand by businesses today is petroleum engineering. Not my cup of tea, but a good piece of information.
Other than the state owning the land, I'm pretty sure UVA is entirely self-sustaining from tuition/endowments. They've asked the state several times to let them go private but state says no. Your $16k a year in property taxes pays for your K-12. It has nothing to do with UVA/W&M, sorry. And honestly, the most successful people I know in DC went to colleges I've never heard of. My UVA friends are teachers.
Signed,
A double W&M grad married to a W&M/Duke Law grad who live in the boonies and drive Hondas.
Anonymous
02/14/2013 03:03
Subject: Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:if the choice is $60K for GW or $20K for UVA (tuition, R&B), there is only one way to go.
We are longtime VA residents and the chances are far greater that our kids will be attending GW because they probably won't get into UVA. Big frowny face.
+100
Lifelong VA resident. UVA, Tech, William&Mary, JMU, GMU are uber, uber competitive to get into these days. My oldest nephew is in one this year, next nephew goes next year and so on...so I am hearing all about it from my sister. Her boys are TOP, TOP students and star athletes and it is near impossible to get into these place as a VA resident--competition is fierce.
The schools (and there was a big article in WashPost) prefer to select out of state students because they get a higher tuition from them. VA residents are pissed and want the schools to save a percentage of spots for VA residents---not in place and the schools don't want to. F*ckface UVA is the worst---they quote Thomas Jefferson as wanting a diverse university and have specific quota on the number of NoVA students they will accept even if they have better academic records than other students.
I wouldn't bank on your kid getting in--even if they are a star student so wouldn't necessarily consider a move.
I was under the impression, based on the info sessions at both W&M and UVA that there was a 1/3-2/3 OOS-in state balance. Based on the stats we were told it is harder to get in from OOS because there are more applicants but of course that's compared to VA overall. I'm sure if you carve out nova it's harder. I, for one, am glad we live OOS and my DC will be applying to both.
What has upset Virginians, and mostly in NOVA due to the xlnt FCPS school system, TJ, the sheer number of applicants and hordes of xlnt private schools, is that all of the Virginian colleges and universities have become so desirable and so competitive that in-state kids can't get in. If I have paid property taxes of $16,000 a year for 20 years, I would finally like to get some bang for my buck since I have been supporting these VA schools for two decades. I don't have the precise figures but I think the immediate poster above has the percentages about right. I am the previous poster whose DC is going to GMU in the fall (and, by the way, from Langley High that now takes at least a 3.7 and a composite ACT of 32 - no easy feat at Langley). I tried to find the exact statistics on the UVA and GMU websites but either I don't have the time to do a good search or the schools keep it in flux, but I think 60% of GMU's class is in-state and the remaining 40% out-of-state, paying the full $37K I mentioned above. The 1/3 - 2/3 OSS to IS statistic that the poster above says claims for UVA and William & Mary may be true --- and, if so, you can understand why Virginians are upset about it. Our local state representative has put in a bill that will increase the number of seats throughout entire VA system by 1,000. I told her the graduating class at Langley alone is 550, Mclean another 550, so adding 1,000 seats state-wide to a large no. of VA universities is just not going to be that much help. BTW there are a number of good Virginia colleges and universities that never get mentioned on the board - like Christopher Newport. Adding 1,000 seats statewide won't make any difference at all. GMU, alone, has the largest school population at 39,000.
If I have the percentages right, then the VA system stands in sharp contrast to the Univ. of California system (not to be confused with the Cal State system - don't even try to apply there from OOS - the Cal State Universities are oversubscribed by Californians). I talked recently with a U.C. Regent in California about the U.C. system and she says that 90% of the slots go to Californians. Only 10% go to OSS. However, California is bankrupt, so the legislature recently passed a bill that would allow another 5% OSS applications. But still, if you are in-state, you are in a vastly better place if you are applying to the xlnt UC system than you are as a Virginian applying to the VA system. The Regent also gave me the fees. The in-state pay a LOT more than we are for GMU. And the OSS pay almost the same as any for other private college or University . . . in other words, a LOT more than the Virginia system.
So you can see why a lot of Virginians are upset.
I do not know if it is harder to get in to William & Mary or UVA from OSS, as a PP said. I think we are comparing apples and oranges. It is a lot harder to get into UVA and William & Mary if you are in NoVa and especially if you are coming from Langley or McLean High School. The seats are very tightly controlled and limited from these schools so it takes an astonishing 4.4+ GPA, numerous AP credits, a brilliant essay and walk on water to get in. However, if you are applying from a public school in a poor area of the state, you may be a shoe-in. I have heard comments to the effect that UVA in-state students razz the out-of-state students, claiming that the Virginians' records were better but that the OSS are needed to keep the system afloat. I have no idea if that is true. All I can add to the discussion is that the VA market is really tough for in-state. Go early action. Make sure they know UVA or William & Mary is your top choice. Don't discount the other Virginia schools that you don't hear about as much, like Christopher Newport. Personally, I was astonished at GMU when we toured and it has been sitting in my backyard for two decades. The legislature has pumped a lot of money into that university over the last 12 years so I am not surprised it is no. 1 in U.S. News & World Report for up and coming university. The robotics, engineer, computer, and game design departments are new, state-of-the art and really connected with other serious computer science and game design schools -- there is one in Scotland that GMU has a new student exchange with. GMU's game design department (www.masongamedesign.org) is rivaled only by the Scottish University and Carnegie. The state legislature funnels money for those programs only to GMU in order to build up the computer science, engineering, game design programs not offered or not offered on the scale that GMU is going to provide. It is also now more difficult to get into GMU than JMU or Va. Tech. I applaud what the legislature is doing (trying to build up GMU and the other schools). I just wish there were more seats for Virginians throughout the system.
BTW, GMU has a strong board and xlnt contact with the tech. companies on the Dulles corridor. Not only do the graduates in certain get jobs - but the school of game design (sorry, that's the only college there that I know much about) gets outside contracts that the students can work on for pay while still in the College of serious game design. GMU also has a top flight engineering program. My U.C. Regent friend says the exiting major most in demand by businesses today is petroleum engineering. Not my cup of tea, but a good piece of information.
Anonymous
02/13/2013 23:49
Subject: Re:Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:
if the choice is $60K for GW or $20K for UVA (tuition, R&B), there is only one way to go.
We are longtime VA residents and the chances are far greater that our kids will be attending GW because they probably won't get into UVA. Big frowny face.
+100
Lifelong VA resident. UVA, Tech, William&Mary, JMU, GMU are uber, uber competitive to get into these days. My oldest nephew is in one this year, next nephew goes next year and so on...so I am hearing all about it from my sister. Her boys are TOP, TOP students and star athletes and it is near impossible to get into these place as a VA resident--competition is fierce.
The schools (and there was a big article in WashPost) prefer to select out of state students because they get a higher tuition from them. VA residents are pissed and want the schools to save a percentage of spots for VA residents---not in place and the schools don't want to. F*ckface UVA is the worst---they quote Thomas Jefferson as wanting a diverse university and have specific quota on the number of NoVA students they will accept even if they have better academic records than other students.
I wouldn't bank on your kid getting in--even if they are a star student so wouldn't necessarily consider a move.
Slightly OT, but I think you're missing the point: Limiting the number of NoVa kids is what helps UVa achieve diversity. It ensures, for example, that students from less well-off portions of the state are able to attend in proportional numbers, which brings geographic and socioeconomic diversity to the University.
Va has cut funding, oos is more cash. Got to keep the lights on.
Anonymous
02/13/2013 23:46
Subject: Re:Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
I was a top student at a lousy high school and got into an Ivy League university. I doubt that I would have been accepted had I gone to a top high school. Something to think about for all those who want their children to go to the best high school - perhaps their chances of admission to a top college will be better coming from a lesser h.s.
Darwin
Anonymous
02/13/2013 23:31
Subject: Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why on Earth would I want my child to attend UVA?
because it's an excellent school where he or she will get a great education.
Yes of course, but the way the OP phrased the OP, it's as if there are only a handful of state colleges in the US, period, and they're all in the mid-Atlantic.
Anyone ever hear of, oh, I dunno, Michigan? Texas? Florida? I realize UVa is ranked higher than most, but as PPs have pointed out, nobody is getting accepted anyway from NoVA. And I find the USNews rankings dubious, anyway. Not worthless, but not nearly as precise and scientific and some others would have it. Thus, I don't put much stock UVA's 7-slot higher ranking over Wisconsin, UNC, UC Davis, etc.
Anonymous
02/13/2013 23:26
Subject: Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:if the choice is $60K for GW or $20K for UVA (tuition, R&B), there is only one way to go.
We are longtime VA residents and the chances are far greater that our kids will be attending GW because they probably won't get into UVA. Big frowny face.
+100
Lifelong VA resident. UVA, Tech, William&Mary, JMU, GMU are uber, uber competitive to get into these days. My oldest nephew is in one this year, next nephew goes next year and so on...so I am hearing all about it from my sister. Her boys are TOP, TOP students and star athletes and it is near impossible to get into these place as a VA resident--competition is fierce.
The schools (and there was a big article in WashPost) prefer to select out of state students because they get a higher tuition from them. VA residents are pissed and want the schools to save a percentage of spots for VA residents---not in place and the schools don't want to. F*ckface UVA is the worst---they quote Thomas Jefferson as wanting a diverse university and have specific quota on the number of NoVA students they will accept even if they have better academic records than other students.
I wouldn't bank on your kid getting in--even if they are a star student so wouldn't necessarily consider a move.
Slightly OT, but I think you're missing the point: Limiting the number of NoVa kids is what helps UVa achieve diversity. It ensures, for example, that students from less well-off portions of the state are able to attend in proportional numbers, which brings geographic and socioeconomic diversity to the University.
Anonymous
02/13/2013 21:35
Subject: Re:Any DC residents think about selling their homes and moving to Va so they get in state college
Anonymous wrote:No. There's nothing stellar about UVA that Maryland or any other flagship state school can't offer.
I would leave DC for the crappy public schools, though. Hey, I did leave DC for the crappy public schools.
UVA's brand power outshines UMD by wide, wide margin. And I went to UMD, so I should know.