Anonymous
Post 04/02/2013 15:19     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
What I found funny was when they got to the third floor, they basically didn't see anyone and then someone hiding whispers in the dark "Osama?"


According to Mark Bissonnette, the author of "No Easy Day" and one of the three SEALs first on the top floor, they did call the names of people they suspected were there. I don't remember if they called Bin Laden's name, but I do remember that he said the called Bin Laden's son's name. This was a tactic they learned from someone else (maybe the Israeli's? I'd have to check the book again) and found to be useful. In that type of situation, there is a lot of confusion. When someone hears his name, he might think for a second that friendlies are calling him because he wouldn't expect his enemies to know his name (true in Ahmad's case maybe, but obviously not Osama's).



+1. I actually found the movie depiction of the raid to be very accurate in regards to what Mark Bissonnette described in his book and in interviews. They did in fact call out the names of the people they were looking for, and at least one (one of Osama's sons) stuck his head out in reply and was promptly shot.
jsteele
Post 04/02/2013 13:14     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:
What I found funny was when they got to the third floor, they basically didn't see anyone and then someone hiding whispers in the dark "Osama?"


According to Mark Bissonnette, the author of "No Easy Day" and one of the three SEALs first on the top floor, they did call the names of people they suspected were there. I don't remember if they called Bin Laden's name, but I do remember that he said the called Bin Laden's son's name. This was a tactic they learned from someone else (maybe the Israeli's? I'd have to check the book again) and found to be useful. In that type of situation, there is a lot of confusion. When someone hears his name, he might think for a second that friendlies are calling him because he wouldn't expect his enemies to know his name (true in Ahmad's case maybe, but obviously not Osama's).

Anonymous
Post 04/02/2013 12:53     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Actually- my understanding is it was realistic. Loved it.


The SEAL raid was not realistic.


Why do you say that?



Many of the "tactical" maneuvers were inaccurate. For example, there was way too much chatter, and they don't break silence during an assault, basically warning the bad guys that they're about to blow off a door. Annoying.


What I found funny was when they got to the third floor, they basically didn't see anyone and then someone hiding whispers in the dark "Osama?"
Anonymous
Post 04/02/2013 11:04     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Actually- my understanding is it was realistic. Loved it.


The SEAL raid was not realistic.


Why do you say that?



Many of the "tactical" maneuvers were inaccurate. For example, there was way too much chatter, and they don't break silence during an assault, basically warning the bad guys that they're about to blow off a door. Annoying.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:50     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
She is real.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 16:38     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Actually- my understanding is it was realistic. Loved it.


The SEAL raid was not realistic.


Why do you say that?
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 15:42     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:are people saying that the US govt has not used torture in its war on terror? because i believe that has been admitted out loud, and seen in some pretty horrifying images.

i watched the movie for the first time last night and was wondering if maya was real or not (or a man) and them this thread popped up - so interesting... wonder if maya is on dcurbanmom....


This thread popped up because I bumped it up two days ago having gotten the movie from Netflix (as you presumably did). The world is a very predictable place.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 15:33     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:Actually- my understanding is it was realistic. Loved it.


The SEAL raid was not realistic.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2013 22:14     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
are people saying that the US govt has not used torture in its war on terror? because i believe that has been admitted out loud, and seen in some pretty horrifying images.

i watched the movie for the first time last night and was wondering if maya was real or not (or a man) and them this thread popped up - so interesting... wonder if maya is on dcurbanmom....
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2013 19:05     Subject: Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
When it's declassified in 100 years (for the safety of those involved), we'll probably find out it was a dude.....
jsteele
Post 03/31/2013 11:02     Subject: Re:Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Did we capture Bin Laden?


Yes! We did it! Isn't it awesome?

Oh wait...you are one of those people who believe we didn't get him....


No, I am not "one of those people". I do however know the difference between "kill" and "capture". Can you "capture" a dead person?


His body was taken into custody and then later dumped in the ocean. But, I guess arguing about killed/captured is more interesting then discussing the efficacy of torture.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2013 10:06     Subject: Re:Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Did we capture Bin Laden?


Yes! We did it! Isn't it awesome?

Oh wait...you are one of those people who believe we didn't get him....


No, I am not "one of those people". I do however know the difference between "kill" and "capture". Can you "capture" a dead person?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2013 09:56     Subject: Re:Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:Did we capture Bin Laden?


Yes! We did it! Isn't it awesome?

Oh wait...you are one of those people who believe we didn't get him....
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2013 09:55     Subject: Re:Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually- my understanding is it was realistic. Loved it.



The depiction of the use of torture to obtain critical information was not accurate.



NP here and actually, I think that the scene of using torture is supposed to be accurate, unfortunately.



The scene may be an accurate depiction of techniques used, but the context was inaccurate. Senators Feinstein, Levin, and McCain wrote a very harsh letter to Sony Pictures about this:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/542919/12-12-19-sony-letter.pdf

"We believe the film is grossly inaccurate and misleading in its suggestion that torture resulted in information that led to the location of Usama bin Laden."

These three Senators are on the Intelligence Committee and have been thoroughly briefed on the topic. In addition, then CIA Director Leon Panetta confirmed to McCain that "no detainee in CIA custody revealed the facilitator/courier's full true name or specific whereabouts. This information was discovered through other intelligence means."




It's troubling that the movie would portray torture when torture wasn't used. When the U.S. is struggling with image problems abroad, why fan the flames with false images? Inappropriate and troubling decision on the part of the moviemakers.


The point is not that torture wasn't used. It most definitely was used. The inaccuracy is that the torture did not lead to information that resulted in capturing bin Laden. That information had already come up months earlier through legal, non-torture methods by the FBI and through good old-fashioned intel work.


Did we capture Bin Laden?


YES, BUT NOT BECAUSE WE TORTURED PEOPLE! (And to be accurate, we killed him. We didn't capture him.)
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2013 08:41     Subject: Re:Who is the real Maya in Zero Dark Thirty?
Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually- my understanding is it was realistic. Loved it.



The depiction of the use of torture to obtain critical information was not accurate.



NP here and actually, I think that the scene of using torture is supposed to be accurate, unfortunately.



The scene may be an accurate depiction of techniques used, but the context was inaccurate. Senators Feinstein, Levin, and McCain wrote a very harsh letter to Sony Pictures about this:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/542919/12-12-19-sony-letter.pdf

"We believe the film is grossly inaccurate and misleading in its suggestion that torture resulted in information that led to the location of Usama bin Laden."

These three Senators are on the Intelligence Committee and have been thoroughly briefed on the topic. In addition, then CIA Director Leon Panetta confirmed to McCain that "no detainee in CIA custody revealed the facilitator/courier's full true name or specific whereabouts. This information was discovered through other intelligence means."




It's troubling that the movie would portray torture when torture wasn't used. When the U.S. is struggling with image problems abroad, why fan the flames with false images? Inappropriate and troubling decision on the part of the moviemakers.


The point is not that torture wasn't used. It most definitely was used. The inaccuracy is that the torture did not lead to information that resulted in capturing bin Laden. That information had already come up months earlier through legal, non-torture methods by the FBI and through good old-fashioned intel work.


Did we capture Bin Laden?