Anonymous wrote:I think that it is absolutely wonderful that enough progress has been made in elementary education in DC that people are even having this discussion. To those of us who have been here watching and helping this movement, congratulations. To those who are just joining in and seeing new things that they would like to improve, welcome and I hope you can create the options that you want, but please try to give a little bit of credit to what has been done so far recently before you bad mouth what is here.

Anonymous wrote:I am very much not a troll and I agree that there is a lot of entitlement on this thread. First, this is a poor city that had for many years extremely poor citizens. The city designed the free PS and PK as an offshoot of Head Start to provide free early education to kids whose parents can't afford it. It's great that you would prefer to have your child spend time with a nanny or you and only attend preschool part time. Then do that. But it is entitled to demand that the city offer you the free preschool that you want in addition to the free preschool that the city believes the poor children of this city need. Second, the problem that people seem to have really stems from your own decision to live in a neighborhood that does not offer a school that you find acceptable. Living here requires trade offs. If you choose to live in the biggest house you can afford in a transitional neighborhood then you have to play the lottery and take the full day PS and PK. If you want to pick your preschool and still have a guaranteed K then you will have to move to a neighborhood that allows that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am very much not a troll and I agree that there is a lot of entitlement on this thread. First, this is a poor city that had for many years extremely poor citizens. The city designed the free PS and PK as an offshoot of Head Start to provide free early education to kids whose parents can't afford it. It's great that you would prefer to have your child spend time with a nanny or you and only attend preschool part time. Then do that. But it is entitled to demand that the city offer you the free preschool that you want in addition to the free preschool that the city believes the poor children of this city need. Second, the problem that people seem to have really stems from your own decision to live in a neighborhood that does not offer a school that you find acceptable. Living here requires trade offs. If you choose to live in the biggest house you can afford in a transitional neighborhood then you have to play the lottery and take the full day PS and PK. If you want to pick your preschool and still have a guaranteed K then you will have to move to a neighborhood that allows that.

Let's have a conversation. Okay? Let's drop the "troll" and the "entitled" stuff and just listen to one another. Because you, poster, and possibly the other posters, are not reading carefully. To understand one another, let's read. Respond, sure. Disagree, sure. But read what I'm saying first. And stop name-calling. PP was called a troll because she just provoked and responded to a sincere dialogue with insults (go move to a mcmansion in loudon) that did nothing to advance the conversation. She later made a more legitimate post, but that was trollish posting, previously.

And FWIW, I am not just responding to you here, but to the few posters who I feel have been somewhat antagonistic towards those of us who feel locked into unattractive choices.

To begin: I do not want free preschool. I DO love the fact that this city does provide free preschool for some (not all) of the nation's poor children. And, you are mistaken in your own perceptions of what and how this preschool is designed to do for kids in the city. You say that PS and PK is designed as an offshoot of head start to provide free early education to kids whose parents can't afford it? That is the definition of headstart itself. The OFFSHOOT of head start, however is NOT INCOME BASED. DC's preschools were opened up to all families, not just poor families. In fact, one could easily make the argument that these schools are not serving the poor kids nearly as well as the original head start programs would have, considering there's no income requirement now, and there are limited spots, and there are no in boundary guarantees for preschool. All of this means that poor kids who would have qualified for the free services previously only had to compete with one another for these spots, but now have to compete with children of all income brackets. So really, that argument does not carry. Now, the upside of this might be the benefits of mixing up poor kids with children of means, due to a host of complex issues that is tough to unpack on this post. Anyway, it's not that I am not saying there is no benefit to the "free" preschool. I'm just saying that the expansion of the program came with some drawbacks. The above is the most obvious. The poor kid might really benefit from preschool, but might get closed out if too many other kids (including those of affluent families who could afford to pay for it anyway) take the few spots. It's musical chairs, to begin with, and not every kid gets a seat. So, if you think this program should be about helping poor families, we agree. BUT, it isn't. That is a different post, but it's worth saying since PP tried using it to suggest I'm entitled.

As I said, I do not want "free" preschool. There are some programs that seem nice but, given the fact that they are all day, every day, I am not into them. Still, paying for preschool is possible, although we are NOT a wealthy family (more on that later). I'm not looking for a handout.

If you think that it's as simple as just skipping the whole deal and just hoping a new charter that is anywhere near your kids' needs will open up magically and have spots for your kid, it's not. If it were that simple, that's what we'd be doing. We would continue on in our 2x a week playschool and enroll in kindergarten.

Finally, your guess about my housing choice is just silly. Perhaps YOU had a complete set of CHOICES to make about where to live. I live in a very small house - tiny 2 bedroom - in a marginal neighborhood. We could NOT afford a condo in a good school district. Never in my life would I call us "poor" but we do not make six figures here, which is not an anomaly in real life, but I realize is a huge anomaly among DCUMers. You don't just get to live wherever you want on that kind of salary. And don't kid yourself that we could afford a condo in a nice neighborhood. Add in the fact that we had unplanned twins, and we did the best we could with our situation. We didn't like the school options here, but hey, we couldn't afford better. Many people are not as lucky as you are. It really only says something about you, and not me, that you take the jab (without knowing anything about me other than the fact that I don't want to send my kid to all day every day school at four) that I want to live in "the biggest house we can afford."

It's just interesting to me to see someone get as rude as you were to me, and yet be factually incorrect in half her message. Your assumptions were wrong, and you had some of your facts about preschool wrong, too. I could take a guess about you (you like that free preschool and are afraid that I might get others on board to make changes that somehow threaten it) but I won't. Because it's just a distraction.

I'm a parent doing the best I can for my kids and believe it or not, I want you to be able to get what is best for your kids, too. They are all going to share the same world, and this world needs smart kids of all stripes getting the best start they can get. It would not be so hard to mix the system up to allow kids an entry point that isn't defaulted at age 3 or 4. Maybe a few new charters that begin catering to parents like mine? Trust me, I dno't want to compete with you for resources you are already enjoying. I just don't want to be forced into this system that does not work for my family the way it is working for yours.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: ... This would give people the all-day care they need for 3's and 4's without all the stress of trying to pick a philosophy, a language, a feeder program and a commute they could live with forever at such an early age.

Yes, the kids would likely change schools for K, but that has historically been the case when kids transitioned from preschool to kindergarten. And I say this as a Stokes parent who did get lucky in the lottery, but would have liked to keep my daughter home another year without losing our spot.

This is an important point that I have seen is that it is not "all day care" - it is a full day of school. DC is trying to do something to close the performance gap - and because it does not work for you and your snowflake, you want new rules.

Children from low-SES families often begin kindergarten with significantly less linguistic knowledge. DC tried to do something about this and are providing these children (and the rest of the DC residents) the opportunity to have a quality PreS and PreK programs.

They're letting wealthy kids compete with head start kids for spots that were previously income based. The wealthier kids come from families with two working parents. The working families are working but there is a recognition that working families can't easily afford all-day childcare. This is as much to make it easier on them than on the poor kids. Especially since the poor kids now have to share the program with the middle and wealthy class kids whose parents could pay for it otherwise.

Every child in DC who wants a PreK spot can get one. It might not be at the school you desire, but at count day there are openings. The DCPS that have a PreS program are those that traditionally have had the highest % of FARMS. There is also a POV that having mixed SES classrooms is beneficial as the higher SES students balance the classroom with experiences and are able to model classroom behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

To begin: I do not want free preschool. I DO love the fact that this city does provide free preschool for some (not all) of the nation's poor children. And, you are mistaken in your own perceptions of what and how this preschool is designed to do for kids in the city. You say that PS and PK is designed as an offshoot of head start to provide free early education to kids whose parents can't afford it? That is the definition of headstart itself. The OFFSHOOT of head start, however is NOT INCOME BASED. DC's preschools were opened up to all families, not just poor families. In fact, one could easily make the argument that these schools are not serving the poor kids nearly as well as the original head start programs would have, considering there's no income requirement now, and there are limited spots, and there are no in boundary guarantees for preschool. All of this means that poor kids who would have qualified for the free services previously only had to compete with one another for these spots, but now have to compete with children of all income brackets. So really, that argument does not carry. Now, the upside of this might be the benefits of mixing up poor kids with children of means, due to a host of complex issues that is tough to unpack on this post. Anyway, it's not that I am not saying there is no benefit to the "free" preschool. I'm just saying that the expansion of the program came with some drawbacks. The above is the most obvious. The poor kid might really benefit from preschool, but might get closed out if too many other kids (including those of affluent families who could afford to pay for it anyway) take the few spots. It's musical chairs, to begin with, and not every kid gets a seat. So, if you think this program should be about helping poor families, we agree. BUT, it isn't. That is a different post, but it's worth saying since PP tried using it to suggest I'm entitled.

This is actually not true. Every year there are extra spots for PS and PK. They just might not be at a school that YOU would consider to be an OK place to send your child.

And let's not kid ourselves. Rhee expanded the PreSchool program to attract EXACTLY the kinds of middle to upper middle class families it has attracted to the public school system, with the hopes that once these families are in DCPS/charters, they will stay rather than head for private or the burbs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: ... This would give people the all-day care they need for 3's and 4's without all the stress of trying to pick a philosophy, a language, a feeder program and a commute they could live with forever at such an early age.

Yes, the kids would likely change schools for K, but that has historically been the case when kids transitioned from preschool to kindergarten. And I say this as a Stokes parent who did get lucky in the lottery, but would have liked to keep my daughter home another year without losing our spot.

This is an important point that I have seen is that it is not "all day care" - it is a full day of school. DC is trying to do something to close the performance gap - and because it does not work for you and your snowflake, you want new rules.

Children from low-SES families often begin kindergarten with significantly less linguistic knowledge. DC tried to do something about this and are providing these children (and the rest of the DC residents) the opportunity to have a quality PreS and PreK programs.

They're letting wealthy kids compete with head start kids for spots that were previously income based. The wealthier kids come from families with two working parents. The working families are working but there is a recognition that working families can't easily afford all-day childcare. This is as much to make it easier on them than on the poor kids. Especially since the poor kids now have to share the program with the middle and wealthy class kids whose parents could pay for it otherwise.

Every child in DC who wants a PreK spot can get one. It might not be at the school you desire, but at count day there are openings. The DCPS that have a PreS program are those that traditionally have had the highest % of FARMS. There is also a POV that having mixed SES classrooms is beneficial as the higher SES students balance the classroom with experiences and are able to model classroom behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad is that what's best for our kids takes a back seat to not being shut out by waiting. Your DC may not be ready right now, but if you don't apply and take a spot now you may be SOL later. We all lose in this game!

I disagree with using the term "sad". The option for free PK3 and PK4 is very rare in DC. You don't have to participate in the madness if you do not want. K is a good year to enter charters so if you opt to keep your child at home you have that right, but don't call it sad because its a daunting process if you wish to participate. All I see about preschool craziness in lotteries etc baffles me, it's more of an entitlement feeling from other parents rather than looking at it as a great benefit to utilize to offset expensive daycare and prepare our youngsters for Kinder (even of you're destined to a tier 2 option).

A troll has come a'lurkin'! So tired of these pretenders. Everyone knows that if you wait till K, you're likely screwed. Yes, a lot of people are taking advantage of free Pre-K and move on to other options at the K level. More DO NOT. The number of people on waitlists has reached into the hundreds. The economy is down. Translation- people aren't messing around and are sticking with their school from Prek going forward, so long as its not a total mess. Parents wanting an option are not ENTITLED. People trying to push that message are DEMONS FROM TROLL LAND, however!

OMG, thank you virtual stranger. PP from above and I swallowed the nasty troll bait hook, line, and sinker. The fact that I'm sick and nearly in tears about the school situation is bad enough, and then to have someone call me entitled because I want a choice? I'd be glad to just have a few spots at the schools set aside for students whose families did not use the preschool to allow competitive K entry. I think this change will happen gradually, but it seems unlikely before it's too late for my kids.

Thank you for talking me down from the ledge here. I allowed that poster to make me really angry and you are right - she's just baiting me.

I really don't think PP is a troll. Do you know what a troll is? Do you really think that someone could have a different opinion than you?

I would bet that if you took a poll of all parents in DC (not just DCUMland), you would find that the VAST majority are in favor of full day PS & PK.

It sounds like your real problem is that you are not happy with your local DCPS. If you lived virtually anywhere else in the country, you wouldn't have the myriad options available to you to get out of sending your kid to your local school. That's the positive in the DC school choice craziness. The drawback, maybe you might have to send your kid to school a little bit before you would like. It's a tradeoff.

Up until a few years ago, PS wasn't even available here. Can you imagine the outcry if they tried to get rid of it or scale it back?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: ... This would give people the all-day care they need for 3's and 4's without all the stress of trying to pick a philosophy, a language, a feeder program and a commute they could live with forever at such an early age.

Yes, the kids would likely change schools for K, but that has historically been the case when kids transitioned from preschool to kindergarten. And I say this as a Stokes parent who did get lucky in the lottery, but would have liked to keep my daughter home another year without losing our spot.

This is an important point that I have seen is that it is not "all day care" - it is a full day of school. DC is trying to do something to close the performance gap - and because it does not work for you and your snowflake, you want new rules.

Children from low-SES families often begin kindergarten with significantly less linguistic knowledge. DC tried to do something about this and are providing these children (and the rest of the DC residents) the opportunity to have a quality PreS and PreK programs.

They're letting wealthy kids compete with head start kids for spots that were previously income based. The wealthier kids come from families with two working parents. The working families are working but there is a recognition that working families can't easily afford all-day childcare. This is as much to make it easier on them than on the poor kids. Especially since the poor kids now have to share the program with the middle and wealthy class kids whose parents could pay for it otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:

To begin: I do not want free preschool. I DO love the fact that this city does provide free preschool for some (not all) of the nation's poor children. And, you are mistaken in your own perceptions of what and how this preschool is designed to do for kids in the city. You say that PS and PK is designed as an offshoot of head start to provide free early education to kids whose parents can't afford it? That is the definition of headstart itself. The OFFSHOOT of head start, however is NOT INCOME BASED. DC's preschools were opened up to all families, not just poor families. In fact, one could easily make the argument that these schools are not serving the poor kids nearly as well as the original head start programs would have, considering there's no income requirement now, and there are limited spots, and there are no in boundary guarantees for preschool. All of this means that poor kids who would have qualified for the free services previously only had to compete with one another for these spots, but now have to compete with children of all income brackets. So really, that argument does not carry. Now, the upside of this might be the benefits of mixing up poor kids with children of means, due to a host of complex issues that is tough to unpack on this post. Anyway, it's not that I am not saying there is no benefit to the "free" preschool. I'm just saying that the expansion of the program came with some drawbacks. The above is the most obvious. The poor kid might really benefit from preschool, but might get closed out if too many other kids (including those of affluent families who could afford to pay for it anyway) take the few spots. It's musical chairs, to begin with, and not every kid gets a seat. So, if you think this program should be about helping poor families, we agree. BUT, it isn't. That is a different post, but it's worth saying since PP tried using it to suggest I'm entitled.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: ... This would give people the all-day care they need for 3's and 4's without all the stress of trying to pick a philosophy, a language, a feeder program and a commute they could live with forever at such an early age.

Yes, the kids would likely change schools for K, but that has historically been the case when kids transitioned from preschool to kindergarten. And I say this as a Stokes parent who did get lucky in the lottery, but would have liked to keep my daughter home another year without losing our spot.

This is an important point that I have seen is that it is not "all day care" - it is a full day of school. DC is trying to do something to close the performance gap - and because it does not work for you and your snowflake, you want new rules.

Children from low-SES families often begin kindergarten with significantly less linguistic knowledge. DC tried to do something about this and are providing these children (and the rest of the DC residents) the opportunity to have a quality PreS and PreK programs.

Anonymous wrote:I am very much not a troll and I agree that there is a lot of entitlement on this thread. First, this is a poor city that had for many years extremely poor citizens. The city designed the free PS and PK as an offshoot of Head Start to provide free early education to kids whose parents can't afford it. It's great that you would prefer to have your child spend time with a nanny or you and only attend preschool part time. Then do that. But it is entitled to demand that the city offer you the free preschool that you want in addition to the free preschool that the city believes the poor children of this city need. Second, the problem that people seem to have really stems from your own decision to live in a neighborhood that does not offer a school that you find acceptable. Living here requires trade offs. If you choose to live in the biggest house you can afford in a transitional neighborhood then you have to play the lottery and take the full day PS and PK. If you want to pick your preschool and still have a guaranteed K then you will have to move to a neighborhood that allows that.