Anonymous wrote:OP, you are essentially moving the dog from one prison to another. There is nothing humane about that.

Dogs end up in shelters because of living conditions like yours. They act up, bite, and develop behavior problems.

+1

OP, you are essentially moving the dog from one prison to another. There is nothing humane about that.

Dogs end up in shelters because of living conditions like yours. They act up, bite, and develop behavior problems.

We've had a dog for about 11 months. While we can afford it, it has cost us about $4000 between training, toys, boarding when out of town, etc. It's been more expensive that I can even imagine. My husband has banned us from spending another penny on the dog.

Anonymous wrote:I do not want to get a dog who will be unhappy. I want to save a dog who's had a tough time and has no other alternatives left.

OP, I respect your desire to help a shelter dog. But it's important to remember that dogs cannot reason like people. There is no dog capable of thinking, "Well, I'm lonely and bored now, but at least I'm not dead and that's where I was headed before I came here." The dog is just lonely and bored, and therefore unhappy: it can't contemplate alternatives or tell itself that it's better off now.

Several PPs have suggested you could accomplish your goal more effectively by supporting a no-kill shelter that rescues dogs from kill shelters and places them in homes and/or keeps them until homes can be found. I agree, but I would add to that, you might consider fostering a dog for such an organization: that way the commitment is shorter term and the organization often will cover some or all expenses if the foster cannot or chooses not to. When you foster, you provide a home for an animal that does not have one, but rather than committing for years you are a temporary way station on its road to a better life. This might offer you some flexibility or a trial period if you need it. And, often, fosters end up keeping the harder-to-adopt dogs (like the older ones) for extended periods anyway.

I wish you good luck.

Well, I'd get a little older dog from a shelter or rescue. I'd crate at first and then work up to more freedom.

Anonymous wrote:Crating or leaving a dog home for an extended period of time is not inhumane. Some dogs LOVE their crates. It's their safe zones. Dogs get used to your schedule and adjust. Of course if your dog can't hold it for that long, then you should get a walker or come home during the day so they can relieve themself. Like parenting, everyone has their own way. If the dog is happy, why is it your business? At least their in a loving home

OP here. Thank you for the replies. I agree that I am loathe to leave a dog for a long day of work and commuting. But if the alternative is yet another dog that dies in a shelter.... I think the situation might be worth a shot. But I appreciate your input. I guess I'd have to very carefully select a mature, more sedentary dog. Also, perhaps limiting to one room instead of crating.

What do you think about getting the dog a companion? For example, if the dog is amenable to cats, getting him/her a friendly cat for a companion.

I have lived with cats my whole life. Our family had one dog when I was older, but my mom was mostly SAHM so she was able to give it a lot of attention.

I am prepared for the routine expenses for a pet. Pet insurance might be a good idea. I already pay too much for child care. I am very reluctant to pay for a dog sitter. I am trying to put every extra penny into college savings for my kids since dad won't be helping. But I guess I could find out more about it.

I do not want to get a dog who will be unhappy. I want to save a dog who's had a tough time and has no other alternatives left.

Again, thanks for the replies.

We work 9-5:30 and have a toddler -- we also have a puppy who is in his crate during the day. We have a walker come take him out and he gets long walks in the morning (45 mins) and another 45-60 minutes in the evenings. With two adults in the household it is still a lot of work -- are your kids old enough to help? My kid isn't good about walks with the dog so we have to do them either by ourselves or take whole family walks (one adult per dog/kid basically). It's tough, but doable. Fwiw, I had a coworker whose dog was home alone and could hold it for 13 hours). Dog was also low energy and happy to just run around the yard for 30 mins a day. Whatever you do, get a dog suited for your lifestyle and with energy and bladder needs that you can accommodate.

OP, a shelter or rescue group may not permit you to adopt given your work schedule and long hours away from home.

Sweetie, the dog in question is in a shelter. It's got a 75% if not higher chance of being put down. I daresay a slightly imperfect life is better than none at all.

Anonymous wrote:Well----I put all my babies to sleep on their tummies, too. Turned them front-facing at 12 months, fed them cow's milk at 6 months and solid foods at 3 mos. Let them stay with their big sister alone when she was 10.....guess what? They are all fine, and so is my doggy.

There are bleeding heart people like you and then there are those who see the reality of life: Not everything can be perfect and sometimes you just have to deal.

If your goal is survival, I can see why you think this is all fine.

To me, survival is a very low bar, for kids, dogs, or for that matter pretty much any living creature for which I am responsible.

Anonymous wrote:Well----I put all my babies to sleep on their tummies, too. Turned them front-facing at 12 months, fed them cow's milk at 6 months and solid foods at 3 mos. Let them stay with their big sister alone when she was 10.....guess what? They are all fine, and so is my doggy.

There are bleeding heart people like you and then there are those who see the reality of life: Not everything can be perfect and sometimes you just have to deal.

I don't thinking winning the "oh, it will just turn out" gamble makes everyone else a bleeding heart. It makes you REALLY freaking lucky. Most people are willing to take the simple precautions you scoffed at--like abstaining from cow's milk until 12mos or rear facing until 24mos--because the cost-benefit analysis shows that it IS worth the little extra trouble.

Well----I put all my babies to sleep on their tummies, too. Turned them front-facing at 12 months, fed them cow's milk at 6 months and solid foods at 3 mos. Let them stay with their big sister alone when she was 10.....guess what? They are all fine, and so is my doggy.

There are bleeding heart people like you and then there are those who see the reality of life: Not everything can be perfect and sometimes you just have to deal.

Anonymous wrote:What is an extended period? We crate trained our puppy when we were housebreaking him and he was in the crate for a good portion of the day in the beginning. We slowly gave him more freedom. Until about 2 months ago he was still crated at night. We've now taken the crate down and put it away. If we got another dog we would do the same thing. We were told that it is not at all cruel and in fact, the best way to housebreak a puppy.

Using a crate to train a puppy is not the same thing as crating an adult dog while you work 12-hour shifts (so the dog is crated, presumably, for 13 hours - which assumes a 30-minute commute to/from work). The former is indeed the best way to housebreak a puppy; the latter is cruel and inhumane because it gives the dog a terrible quality of life and jeopardizes his mental health (and muscle tone).

I mean it when I say that NO reputable animal welfare/defense org thinks crating an adult dog for a full workday or more is defensible. Not a single one. (Try to find one - you will not.) Why? Because it is objectively bad for the dog. It is cruel and inhumane.

See e.g. the following - these are just a few links. There are many, many more, and they all (ALL) say the same thing:

http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/article-applied-behavior/the-right-2013-and-wrong-2013-way-to-use-a-dog-crate

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.html

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.html

http://north-attleboro.ma.us/shelter/crate.html#crate-adult

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/crate-or-not-crate-why

http://www.chron.com/life/article/Locking-a-dog-in-a-crate-all-day-is-cruel-3459711.php

http://www.adoptpetshelter.org/adoptions/PDF/APetOwnersGuideToTheDogCrate.pdf

What is an extended period? We crate trained our puppy when we were housebreaking him and he was in the crate for a good portion of the day in the beginning. We slowly gave him more freedom. Until about 2 months ago he was still crated at night. We've now taken the crate down and put it away. If we got another dog we would do the same thing. We were told that it is not at all cruel and in fact, the best way to housebreak a puppy.

Anonymous wrote:Crating or leaving a dog home for an extended period of time is not inhumane. Some dogs LOVE their crates. It's their safe zones. Dogs get used to your schedule and adjust. Of course if your dog can't hold it for that long, then you should get a walker or come home during the day so they can relieve themself. Like parenting, everyone has their own way. If the dog is happy, why is it your business? At least their in a loving home

Some parenting practices are universally agreed should not be used, e.g. forgoing a carseat; giving an infant cow's milk (not formula or breastmilk); putting a baby to sleep face-down. There are some practices that recognized authorities say are objectively dangerous or otherwise inadvisable.

The same goes for animal care. All of the recognized authorities in this field - all of them - say that crating for extended periods is inhumane and cruel and will (WILL) have adverse impact on the dog not only psychologically, but in terms of muscle tone/development and other physical issues.

Some things are not a matter of opinion.