Anonymous
12/13/2012 02:57
Subject: concussion/504 plan
Unfortunately, OP, you would like to be in the position of judging what is essential, but that seems to be at odds with your child's teacher.
The example you give about math problems is an interesting one. If there are a dozen problems in a problem set, it's not accurate to say that your child has mastered the concept if she can complete 3 of the problems. It just shows that she can grasp a part of the concept tested by those three problems...maybe. Or that she is very lucky. The professional decides what is necessary to display mastery and if your child can't do this work, then she needs to be placed in a class where she can display mastery.
Good luck finding a way to negotiate appropriate accommodations so your child can access the appropriate curriculum.
The example you give about math problems is an interesting one. If there are a dozen problems in a problem set, it's not accurate to say that your child has mastered the concept if she can complete 3 of the problems. It just shows that she can grasp a part of the concept tested by those three problems...maybe. Or that she is very lucky. The professional decides what is necessary to display mastery and if your child can't do this work, then she needs to be placed in a class where she can display mastery.
Good luck finding a way to negotiate appropriate accommodations so your child can access the appropriate curriculum.
Anonymous
12/12/2012 21:31
Subject: concussion/504 plan
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Just to be clear here, we would like the school to eliminate non-essential assignments or modify them. We are not asking to skip any major unit tests, finals, etc.
I sort of understand the teacher's position that every assignment is essential -- some are for building mastery and some are for demonstrating mastery.
But, for our DC, many of the assignments for building mastery are much longer than they need to be. For example, a child could do a few math problems in a problem set of a dozen identical ones that seek to build skills, and still come away with the necessary understanding. Sometimes simply reading something, instead of reading and answering Qs (which are simply designed to ensure that you read) is enough. I understand that it can be tricky to tell how much is enough to ensure mastery and that teachers don't want to hear complaints about failure later.
Some assignments are clearly non-essential no matter what you think about the above paragraph. Frankly, in middle school we don't think that coloring assignments and word searches are "essential" to understanding.
We are not asking to eliminate demonstrating mastery in any skill area. But, it's not necessary to demonstrate the mastery of the skill 5 times -- homework, classwork, projects, quizzes and unit tests.
PP here. All through ES, we had no issue with reducing and eliminating assignments. But, once we hit MS, that option was never available. I doubt our situation is as difficult as yours though. We did get extended time and a couple of times we were offered alternative assignments but they were actually more difficult.
We also never had a single coloring assignment or word search and the only homework that came home was for the classes that got high school credit. So, our MS experience is very different from yours.
Anonymous
12/12/2012 18:39
Subject: Re:concussion/504 plan
Just to clarify, is your DD in middle school or high school? It seems some posters assume she is in AP or other advanced classes.
Anonymous
12/12/2012 17:01
Subject: concussion/504 plan
OP here. Just to be clear here, we would like the school to eliminate non-essential assignments or modify them. We are not asking to skip any major unit tests, finals, etc.
I sort of understand the teacher's position that every assignment is essential -- some are for building mastery and some are for demonstrating mastery.
But, for our DC, many of the assignments for building mastery are much longer than they need to be. For example, a child could do a few math problems in a problem set of a dozen identical ones that seek to build skills, and still come away with the necessary understanding. Sometimes simply reading something, instead of reading and answering Qs (which are simply designed to ensure that you read) is enough. I understand that it can be tricky to tell how much is enough to ensure mastery and that teachers don't want to hear complaints about failure later.
Some assignments are clearly non-essential no matter what you think about the above paragraph. Frankly, in middle school we don't think that coloring assignments and word searches are "essential" to understanding.
We are not asking to eliminate demonstrating mastery in any skill area. But, it's not necessary to demonstrate the mastery of the skill 5 times -- homework, classwork, projects, quizzes and unit tests.
I sort of understand the teacher's position that every assignment is essential -- some are for building mastery and some are for demonstrating mastery.
But, for our DC, many of the assignments for building mastery are much longer than they need to be. For example, a child could do a few math problems in a problem set of a dozen identical ones that seek to build skills, and still come away with the necessary understanding. Sometimes simply reading something, instead of reading and answering Qs (which are simply designed to ensure that you read) is enough. I understand that it can be tricky to tell how much is enough to ensure mastery and that teachers don't want to hear complaints about failure later.
Some assignments are clearly non-essential no matter what you think about the above paragraph. Frankly, in middle school we don't think that coloring assignments and word searches are "essential" to understanding.
We are not asking to eliminate demonstrating mastery in any skill area. But, it's not necessary to demonstrate the mastery of the skill 5 times -- homework, classwork, projects, quizzes and unit tests.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 19:11
Subject: concussion/504 plan
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have a special needs child who cannot do some assignments because of motoric difficulties. for instance, she cannot do "class projects" that involve construction (making a diorama, a special graphic presentation, illustration, art project, or what have you). She would simply have to do something different.
No, she would not take another class. The assignment would simply not be appropriate for her. There would have to be another way for her to access and appreciate the material.
Your daughter's needs are akin to a child needing a scribe. It's not that she can't do a project or that the project would be inappropriate for her. She needs accommodations, including someone to do the construction after she designs it and selects the materials. It is not the same thing that OP and some of the PPs are talking about, which is eliminating some of the work.
No, I don't agree. Basically, it's like you are saying she could learn ice skating by selecting ice skates, describing the process of ice skating, and paying someone to skate for her. That's not a participatory, interactive, or creative experience.
A talented teacher (which my daughter has, thank God) knows how to modify assignments so that a disabled child can participate. Not by sitting on the sidelines and paying someone to do them for her. And certainly not by lowering academic standards or making speeches about how those standards are God-given.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that accommodations can be made for someone such as your daughter to complete the assignments required to complete the class whereas OP wants to eliminate assignments and get credit for the class. Completely different concepts. Glad your child's school experience is good.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 18:30
Subject: concussion/504 plan
Needing a modified assignment is NOT the same thing as removing assignments. The OP asked for assignments to be taken out, but that is just not the letter or spirit of special education. She is basically asking for the course to be dumbed down. No educator worth his/her salt would ever agree to such a thing. And if they do, then you should have a red flag that their curriculum is weak, poorly correlated and probably lacking in multiple areas. If an SN child cannot (as in will never be able to unless you remove parts of the curriculum) access all of an optional course then it really isn't on the school to change the curriculum or lower standards. If the course is something like honors, AP, electives, etc. and there is a lower level course available then the school is obligated to place that child where they would derive the most benefit: in the class in which the child is capable of succeeding. Needing extended time or modifications on assignments is not the same as being incapable of doing the assignments so therefore they must be removed.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 17:34
Subject: concussion/504 plan
Anonymous wrote:The framework that you put on this -- that the special needs child "cannot keep up with the work" -- is very telling. It's not that the special needs child cannot "keep up" with the work. The special needs child will never be able to access that part of the curriculum. Ever. An alternative will have to be provided.
Well, she could not keep up with the work, not without tearing ALL her hair out (literally). She was at a school akin to one of the "big three" private schools in a city in the West coast where she had been since preK and by 4th grade, the academic load had become unbearable so she left for a school that was a better "fit". No homework at all in elementary school.
Just as blind people cannot go to medical school and people with bad vision cannot become fighter pilots there are limitations to accommodations.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 16:17
Subject: concussion/504 plan
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have a special needs child who cannot do some assignments because of motoric difficulties. for instance, she cannot do "class projects" that involve construction (making a diorama, a special graphic presentation, illustration, art project, or what have you). She would simply have to do something different.
No, she would not take another class. The assignment would simply not be appropriate for her. There would have to be another way for her to access and appreciate the material.
Your daughter's needs are akin to a child needing a scribe. It's not that she can't do a project or that the project would be inappropriate for her. She needs accommodations, including someone to do the construction after she designs it and selects the materials. It is not the same thing that OP and some of the PPs are talking about, which is eliminating some of the work.
No, I don't agree. Basically, it's like you are saying she could learn ice skating by selecting ice skates, describing the process of ice skating, and paying someone to skate for her. That's not a participatory, interactive, or creative experience.
A talented teacher (which my daughter has, thank God) knows how to modify assignments so that a disabled child can participate. Not by sitting on the sidelines and paying someone to do them for her. And certainly not by lowering academic standards or making speeches about how those standards are God-given.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 16:07
Subject: concussion/504 plan
Anonymous wrote:I have a special needs child who cannot do some assignments because of motoric difficulties. for instance, she cannot do "class projects" that involve construction (making a diorama, a special graphic presentation, illustration, art project, or what have you). She would simply have to do something different.
No, she would not take another class. The assignment would simply not be appropriate for her. There would have to be another way for her to access and appreciate the material.
Your daughter's needs are akin to a child needing a scribe. It's not that she can't do a project or that the project would be inappropriate for her. She needs accommodations, including someone to do the construction after she designs it and selects the materials. It is not the same thing that OP and some of the PPs are talking about, which is eliminating some of the work.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 15:56
Subject: Re:concussion/504 plan
Anonymous wrote:This thread right here demonstrates why the US will never be in the top again in terms of education,particularly science and math. Both on the teaching end and on the parent/student end.
You're absolutely right. It's my disabled daughter's fault that the U.S. didn't win the race to the moon.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 15:31
Subject: Re:concussion/504 plan
This thread right here demonstrates why the US will never be in the top again in terms of education,particularly science and math. Both on the teaching end and on the parent/student end.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 15:19
Subject: concussion/504 plan
The framework that you put on this -- that the special needs child "cannot keep up with the work" -- is very telling. It's not that the special needs child cannot "keep up" with the work. The special needs child will never be able to access that part of the curriculum. Ever. An alternative will have to be provided.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 15:17
Subject: concussion/504 plan
I have a special needs child who cannot do some assignments because of motoric difficulties. for instance, she cannot do "class projects" that involve construction (making a diorama, a special graphic presentation, illustration, art project, or what have you). She would simply have to do something different.
No, she would not take another class. The assignment would simply not be appropriate for her. There would have to be another way for her to access and appreciate the material.
No, she would not take another class. The assignment would simply not be appropriate for her. There would have to be another way for her to access and appreciate the material.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 15:08
Subject: concussion/504 plan
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't need to justify myself, but I also have 2 SN kids of my own so I know the law, the system and processes inside and out, and from both sides of the isle. I've worked with numerous lawyers, special ed advocates and specialists along the way. Again, from both sides of the situation. I am regarded as a specialist and have given testimony at the federal level. Plus I do know what can and will work from the school's persepective, from the legal perspective and from the therapeutic perspective. If you think this makes me an ass then I would hazzard a guess that you are an interesting "partner" in the special ed process.
Homework is not just mindless busy work. It is often the only time and place where kids can demonstrate they they are approaching the academic goals. By implying that it is discretionary you are intimating that you have no actual idea what is contained within the curriculum or how curriculum teams work to create a learning environment. Nothing that we assess is just a time filler for kids. Each assignment is a way for kids to practice, get feedback and show understanding. Which one of those is supposed to be given up? Practice for understanding or demonstrating mastery? That is the discussion at hand: what to give up so that a student may stay in higher level classes. The parent is advocating that practice (and the subsequent feedback) are what needs to give. No educator in their right mind would willingly allow this. It is not in the best interest of the student. I have lots of hig-pressure parents who attempt to do this and, fortunately, I work with a great team of educational and developmental experts who are always on the side of the best interest of the kids. We are the ones who have the knowledge and longitudinal understanding to put practices into place that benefit a child in terms of the whole academic program. In the school in which I work and the special ed teams I am a part of, it is simply never, not even one assignment, that is optional or given as filler. I'm sorry that the OP is at school where she believes that some of it is optional. I have no way of knowing if that is rational because of poor pedagogy or if it is a parent who hasn't come to terms with the situation as of yet.
So perhaps, as you point out, it is apples and oranges.
You truly believe that "not one assignment" can be changed, altered, modified, or accommodated for a special needs student -- because a parent hasn't "come to terms with the situation as of yet" -- all in the best interest of the kids. Consider my mind blown. You are on a mission from God.
NP. Accommodations means getting extra time, typing instead of writing, having a scribe, etc. I don't understand why it should also mean that the SN student does not have to do some of the assignments that are required of everyone else in the class. If someone, SN or not, cannot do what is required, they should not be in the class.
And yes, I have a SN child and a niece who had to change schools b/c she could not keep up with the work b/c of her SNs. This is usually called a bad "fit" and I would not hesitate to take my child out of his school or class, if he could not do the work even with accommodations.
Anonymous
12/11/2012 14:57
Subject: concussion/504 plan
Anonymous wrote:I don't need to justify myself, but I also have 2 SN kids of my own so I know the law, the system and processes inside and out, and from both sides of the isle. I've worked with numerous lawyers, special ed advocates and specialists along the way. Again, from both sides of the situation. I am regarded as a specialist and have given testimony at the federal level. Plus I do know what can and will work from the school's persepective, from the legal perspective and from the therapeutic perspective. If you think this makes me an ass then I would hazzard a guess that you are an interesting "partner" in the special ed process.
Homework is not just mindless busy work. It is often the only time and place where kids can demonstrate they they are approaching the academic goals. By implying that it is discretionary you are intimating that you have no actual idea what is contained within the curriculum or how curriculum teams work to create a learning environment. Nothing that we assess is just a time filler for kids. Each assignment is a way for kids to practice, get feedback and show understanding. Which one of those is supposed to be given up? Practice for understanding or demonstrating mastery? That is the discussion at hand: what to give up so that a student may stay in higher level classes. The parent is advocating that practice (and the subsequent feedback) are what needs to give. No educator in their right mind would willingly allow this. It is not in the best interest of the student. I have lots of hig-pressure parents who attempt to do this and, fortunately, I work with a great team of educational and developmental experts who are always on the side of the best interest of the kids. We are the ones who have the knowledge and longitudinal understanding to put practices into place that benefit a child in terms of the whole academic program. In the school in which I work and the special ed teams I am a part of, it is simply never, not even one assignment, that is optional or given as filler. I'm sorry that the OP is at school where she believes that some of it is optional. I have no way of knowing if that is rational because of poor pedagogy or if it is a parent who hasn't come to terms with the situation as of yet.
So perhaps, as you point out, it is apples and oranges.
You truly believe that "not one assignment" can be changed, altered, modified, or accommodated for a special needs student -- because a parent hasn't "come to terms with the situation as of yet" -- all in the best interest of the kids. Consider my mind blown. You are on a mission from God.