Anonymous wrote:Science Olympiad is not just for AAP though, so that argument makes no sense.

From the same argument, TJ is not just for AAP also, you would think TJ kids would not come majority from AAP program.

Anonymous wrote:
That was one recommendation from the parents at the Holmes table. There was also talk of combining with Glasgow. But all these were ideas that were transcribed into the ideas block on the papers handed in to FCPS staff.

It seems strange to me that FCPS thinks the MS center at Glasgow under the scenario under discussion would be so much bigger than the centers at Poe or Holmes. Are there that many more AAP kids that end up at JEB Stuart than Annandale?

Science Olympiad is not just for AAP though, so that argument makes no sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who specifically said they would not allow 11 kids in a grade? And how does this comport with every MS having an AAP center? It seems to me that the Annandale pyramid MS have a great potential situation: they are being guaranteed an AAP center and they can cite studies showing that only AAP eligible kids must be allowed in the AAP classes or else they are not truly AAP classes. What am I missing?

Missing certified AAP teachers from start.

Not enough kids to float programs like Science Olympiad.

Using elementary school Science Olympiad as an example, last year, the teams who achieved the most success (a top 3 finish in every event they entered) were the big centers of Haycock, Louis Archer, and Sangster.

Those schools have a bigger base to draw on and established and successful enrichment programs, which will not be the case at tiny starter programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That being said, I think there are some AAP eligible kids who do not attend AAP because of distance issues or family issues such as having 2 kids at different schools who wuld then be more likely to join AAP at their base MS.

Based on the iSIS data that was shared as part of the task force, the numbers are not there for certain middle schools. It is my understanding that parents at certain middle schools in the Annandale pyramid recommended combining three middle schools together into a single AAP center in order to achieve the numbers necessary to meet the Readiness Checklist.

There are two middle schools in the Annandale pyramid. Maybe they should combine the Poe/Holmes programs and have a single one at Holmes, the smaller of the two schools.

That was one recommendation from the parents at the Holmes table. There was also talk of combining with Glasgow. But all these were ideas that were transcribed into the ideas block on the papers handed in to FCPS staff.

Anonymous wrote:Who specifically said they would not allow 11 kids in a grade?

Sorry, I didn't see name badges on the FCPS staff members that were circulating among the tables in the library at Kilmer MS.

Anonymous wrote:Who specifically said they would not allow 11 kids in a grade? And how does this comport with every MS having an AAP center? It seems to me that the Annandale pyramid MS have a great potential situation: they are being guaranteed an AAP center and they can cite studies showing that only AAP eligible kids must be allowed in the AAP classes or else they are not truly AAP classes. What am I missing?

Missing certified AAP teachers from start.

Who specifically said they would not allow 11 kids in a grade? And how does this comport with every MS having an AAP center? It seems to me that the Annandale pyramid MS have a great potential situation: they are being guaranteed an AAP center and they can cite studies showing that only AAP eligible kids must be allowed in the AAP classes or else they are not truly AAP classes. What am I missing?

Anonymous wrote:I think there are also some kids who maybe were on the border of being AAP eligible (maybe made the screening pool but not the ultimate cut) that would be able to be added to these classes without any negative effect (and likely some positive effect) on the program. In other words, I highly doubt there would only be 11 kids per grade.

The concerns of 11 kids per AAP grade is exact what your proposal is, but with the negative effect. What's the purpose of AAP program? To provide the eligible kids with advanced education with faster pace. To make the matter simpler, say AAP eligible kids are one step ahead of the general ed kids. (To argue about that, there will be another 10 threads discussion). If say in a class with 30 kids, 11 are advanced, while 19 are general ed. What the teacher will do? Ignore the struggle of the 19 general ed kids, and keep the pace with the 11 AAP kids? Or slow down to match the 19 general ed kids? First scenario, the 19 general ed kids will fail and be miserable. Second scenario, it will lose the point of AAP center. If you argue the 19 kids will be borderline, then that's practically lowering the AAP standards for the small centers, while the bigger center still hold higher standards. That's another kind of discrimination. That's discriminating against the AAP eligible kids in lower income neighborhoods.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That being said, I think there are some AAP eligible kids who do not attend AAP because of distance issues or family issues such as having 2 kids at different schools who wuld then be more likely to join AAP at their base MS.

Based on the iSIS data that was shared as part of the task force, the numbers are not there for certain middle schools. It is my understanding that parents at certain middle schools in the Annandale pyramid recommended combining three middle schools together into a single AAP center in order to achieve the numbers necessary to meet the Readiness Checklist.

There are two middle schools in the Annandale pyramid. Maybe they should combine the Poe/Holmes programs and have a single one at Holmes, the smaller of the two schools.

Anonymous wrote:That being said, I think there are some AAP eligible kids who do not attend AAP because of distance issues or family issues such as having 2 kids at different schools who wuld then be more likely to join AAP at their base MS.

Based on the iSIS data that was shared as part of the task force, the numbers are not there for certain middle schools. It is my understanding that parents at certain middle schools in the Annandale pyramid recommended combining three middle schools together into a single AAP center in order to achieve the numbers necessary to meet the Readiness Checklist.

Anonymous wrote:How do you know they would not allow only 11 per grade?

Because FCPS staff said so at the Community meetings last week.

Anonymous wrote:Why is having only 11 kids per grade bad? Couldn't that actually provide for better AAP instruction?

This is the option for Local Level IV. Other kids would not do well in Local Level IV as they are stuck with the same kids, and the same cliques, and the same "I-can't-be-with-Billy-in-my-class" circumstances. One class per grade does not allow for mixing as well as differentiation as compared to two classes per grade.

Some parents want the "I want Johnnie to go to school with the same friends from Kindergarten to high school" notion and others want the option to break apart cliques. FCPS provides Local Level IV as an option for those families that prefer the former.

The options offered for Local Level IV and Level IV Centers work particularly well when there are lots of kids in both scenarios.

You may want to read the research by Dr. Joyce VanTassel-Baska, the facilitator of the Level IV Task Force. She has done extensive research in gifted education.

Here is her bio:
http://wmpeople.wm.edu/site/page/jlvant/home

and here is some of her research:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10215.aspx

http://gcq.sagepub.com/content/36/2/68.short

How do you know they would not allow only 11 per grade? I realize it costs more, but if they are proposing to open a center at every MS and they know some MS only have 11 kids per grade, then they are aware there will only be 11 AAP per grade. That being said, I think there are some AAP eligible kids who do not attend AAP because of distance issues or family issues such as having 2 kids at different schools who wuld then be more likely to join AAP at their base MS. Beyond that, I think there are also some kids who maybe were on the border of being AAP eligible (maybe made the screening pool but not the ultimate cut) that would be able to be added to these classes without any negative effect (and likely some positive effect) on the program. In other words, I highly doubt there would only be 11 kids per grade.

Why is it a problem if the same kids are together throughout the day? This is how it was for the kids in K-3 before AAP and how it is for many kids who are in all honors classes at smaller MS. I've never heard that is a problem.

The problem with 11 kids per grade are two fold: the same cohorts will always be with the same kids, and the county would not allow 11 kids per class, so it would be supplemented with other kids, defeating the purpose of the level four program