Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 21:59     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The people who do this are the same ones pissed off that recent studies by Stanford showed absolutely no impact of organic food on health outcomes. They do it to say they give their children raw milk, whole foods, etc...they are insecure and needing to validate their parenting by thinking they are better parents because of choices like this.


I'm not a raw milk person, but to be clear on that Stanford study:
"Based on data from 237 previously conducted studies, the Stanford report concluded that when it comes to certain nutrients, there is not much difference between organic and conventionally grown food. But it also found that organic foods have 31 percent lower levels of pesticides, fewer food-borne pathogens and more phenols, a substance believed to help fight cancer."
from http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/us/would-be-healthy-eaters-face-confusion-of-choices.html?pagewanted=all

And from the actual study:
"Conclusion: The published literature lacks strong evidence that organic foods are significantly more nutritious than conventional foods. Consumption of organic foods may reduce exposure to pesticide residues and antibiotic-resistant bacteria."
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1355685

It may be that organics are not more nutritious than conventionals, but most people I know who try to buy organics are more concerned about hormones, pesticides, etc.



Exactly. I always find these studies ridiculous. Are there really people out there buying organic because they think it has more vitamins and minerals? I don't even see any organic producers or products making that claim. Moreover, I think a big difference even for those of us who think a little bit of pesticides with our peaches is no big deal PERSONALLY is that if we can afford it, we prefer to support organic farms because they are often better for the farmers (and the environment)-- the people who really have to worry about pesticides are not pregnant urban women or our children consuming non-organic produce, but for the people producing our foods and living near the sprayed farms with their families. Maybe I'm just hypersensitive after spending a significant amount of time running through cherry orchards during the early-a.m. pesticide spray as a teenager, though.


There was never any assumption in the study that people buy organic because they think the products have more vitamins or minerals. They point was to determine if organic foods produce better health outcomes overall. And there was no evidence that they do. Let me clarify again -- organic farmers DO use pesticides -- ALL farmers use pesticides. Organic farmers just use non-synthetic pesticides. Higher levels of pesticides were found in those who ate non-organic foods...but that's not the point...the point was that the present of these pesticides apparently produced no worse health outcomes. Perhaps there have been studies that have shown a link between non-synthetic and synthetic pesticides as to their effect on the environment -- this I don't know. So, that would be a rational reason then to advocate for organic. In any case, yes, I buy my son organic milk -- it just makes me feel better to do so. So why doesn't everyone just say that?
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 21:34     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't feed my children raw milk because I am trying to feel superior, I feed my children raw milk because I'm not about to pasteurize the milk from my own damn dairy cows that are sweet and clean and incidentally NOT sick. It really isn't that hard to keep milk clean. It is that dairies aren't set up for it because there is no need: the milk will be cooked anyway, so why spend the time and expense?

Since we obtained a cow and stopped drinking commercial cooked dead milk, my kids have been sick less, they no longer need meds for seasonal allergies, and they are far less picky eaters.


This is awsome!! Do i need some sort of permit to have a dairy cow in my yard in the middle of Fairfax?! How will I convince my DH to buy a dairy cow?

Pp, do you live in the dc metro area?


I'm interested in where this poster lives too. Also, it was funny that you said "my own damn dairy cows."
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 21:29     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
"thought maybe someone could point me to some definitive research or obvious scientific evidence about organic milk and/or milk that's free of growth hormones. So far, the responses haven't really helped. "

so you specifically were asking about growth hormones and several PPs noted that most milk (yes, likely even at your 7-11) is from farms that don't use the growth hormones now....that is useful info, OP. It's not what you were asking for, but it answers your question in terms of whether - for this specific thing you were intersted in - it's worth buying organic or not.

Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 19:35     Subject: Re:switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have 3 friends recently diagnosed with pcos. All three separate drs mentioned it could be from growth hormones in meat and dairy from a young age.


Your friends must be really young. rBGH for dairy cows wasn't in use before the mid 90s.


NP here - why the eye roll? you know that PCOS can be diagnosed in teenage girls, right? No one said you have to be drinking the milk since birth to see the effect.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 18:59     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Raw milk sales are prohibited in DC, Maryland, and Virginia. Transporting it across state lines is a crime. So unless you own a cow it is difficult to have raw milk here.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 17:32     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you think that organic milk is better, switch. Just as I would advise a 75 year old to quit smoking (and she did).


I wouldn't urge a 75 year old to stop smoking. What's the point? They are old enough now that if it kills them, it kills them, and they should be able to enjoy their last few years.[/quote

"Enjoy"? Have you seen what the end of life looks like for a person who is suffering from lung disease?
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 17:28     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:If you think that organic milk is better, switch. Just as I would advise a 75 year old to quit smoking (and she did).


I wouldn't urge a 75 year old to stop smoking. What's the point? They are old enough now that if it kills them, it kills them, and they should be able to enjoy their last few years.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 15:30     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:I don't feed my children raw milk because I am trying to feel superior, I feed my children raw milk because I'm not about to pasteurize the milk from my own damn dairy cows that are sweet and clean and incidentally NOT sick. It really isn't that hard to keep milk clean. It is that dairies aren't set up for it because there is no need: the milk will be cooked anyway, so why spend the time and expense?

Since we obtained a cow and stopped drinking commercial cooked dead milk, my kids have been sick less, they no longer need meds for seasonal allergies, and they are far less picky eaters.


This is awsome!! Do i need some sort of permit to have a dairy cow in my yard in the middle of Fairfax?! How will I convince my DH to buy a dairy cow?

Pp, do you live in the dc metro area?
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 15:21     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
I don't feed my children raw milk because I am trying to feel superior, I feed my children raw milk because I'm not about to pasteurize the milk from my own damn dairy cows that are sweet and clean and incidentally NOT sick. It really isn't that hard to keep milk clean. It is that dairies aren't set up for it because there is no need: the milk will be cooked anyway, so why spend the time and expense?

Since we obtained a cow and stopped drinking commercial cooked dead milk, my kids have been sick less, they no longer need meds for seasonal allergies, and they are far less picky eaters.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 15:20     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course switching now is beneficial--when we were kids, there was no organic milk at the grocery store, but obviously many of us made the switch. I definitely recommend the Cornucopia website above. For me, organic milk is more about treatment of animals, and while it IS more expensive, even double or triple the cost of non-organic milk, we're talking, what $4-5? IMO, it's well worth it.


When we were kids, cows weren't given growh hormones. It always cracks me up when prople say, "I never ate organic, and I turned out fine!"


Yes, it depends when and where you grew up.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 15:09     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The people who do this are the same ones pissed off that recent studies by Stanford showed absolutely no impact of organic food on health outcomes. They do it to say they give their children raw milk, whole foods, etc...they are insecure and needing to validate their parenting by thinking they are better parents because of choices like this.


I'm not a raw milk person, but to be clear on that Stanford study:
"Based on data from 237 previously conducted studies, the Stanford report concluded that when it comes to certain nutrients, there is not much difference between organic and conventionally grown food. But it also found that organic foods have 31 percent lower levels of pesticides, fewer food-borne pathogens and more phenols, a substance believed to help fight cancer."
from http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/us/would-be-healthy-eaters-face-confusion-of-choices.html?pagewanted=all

And from the actual study:
"Conclusion: The published literature lacks strong evidence that organic foods are significantly more nutritious than conventional foods. Consumption of organic foods may reduce exposure to pesticide residues and antibiotic-resistant bacteria."
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1355685

It may be that organics are not more nutritious than conventionals, but most people I know who try to buy organics are more concerned about hormones, pesticides, etc.



Exactly. I always find these studies ridiculous. Are there really people out there buying organic because they think it has more vitamins and minerals? I don't even see any organic producers or products making that claim. Moreover, I think a big difference even for those of us who think a little bit of pesticides with our peaches is no big deal PERSONALLY is that if we can afford it, we prefer to support organic farms because they are often better for the farmers (and the environment)-- the people who really have to worry about pesticides are not pregnant urban women or our children consuming non-organic produce, but for the people producing our foods and living near the sprayed farms with their families. Maybe I'm just hypersensitive after spending a significant amount of time running through cherry orchards during the early-a.m. pesticide spray as a teenager, though.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 14:07     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:You do realize that organic foods aren't pesticide-free, right? All farmers use pesticides -- organic farmers just need to use non-synthetic pesticides.


Yes, I should've said: It may be that organics are not more nutritious than conventionals, but most people I know who try to buy organics are more concerned about hormones, toxic pesticides not approved under USDA organic guidelines, etc.

Thank you for the correction.

I also am aware that not all substances approved for use under USDA organic guidelines are perfect, but the point remains that it is inaccurate to use the Stanford study as an argument against organic milk in this thread. The OP asked specifically about hormones, and the bottom line is that if you are concerned about reducing your exposure to these types of chemicals - understanding it's nearly impossible to eliminate them completely - then the research indicates you should buy organic whenever possible.

Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 13:37     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The people who do this are the same ones pissed off that recent studies by Stanford showed absolutely no impact of organic food on health outcomes. They do it to say they give their children raw milk, whole foods, etc...they are insecure and needing to validate their parenting by thinking they are better parents because of choices like this.


I'm not a raw milk person, but to be clear on that Stanford study:
"Based on data from 237 previously conducted studies, the Stanford report concluded that when it comes to certain nutrients, there is not much difference between organic and conventionally grown food. But it also found that organic foods have 31 percent lower levels of pesticides, fewer food-borne pathogens and more phenols, a substance believed to help fight cancer."
from http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/us/would-be-healthy-eaters-face-confusion-of-choices.html?pagewanted=all

And from the actual study:
"Conclusion: The published literature lacks strong evidence that organic foods are significantly more nutritious than conventional foods. Consumption of organic foods may reduce exposure to pesticide residues and antibiotic-resistant bacteria."
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1355685

It may be that organics are not more nutritious than conventionals, but most people I know who try to buy organics are more concerned about hormones, pesticides, etc.



You do realize that organic foods aren't pesticide-free, right? All farmers use pesticides -- organic farmers just need to use non-synthetic pesticides.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2012 13:34     Subject: switch to organic milk - any impact?
Anonymous wrote:The people who do this are the same ones pissed off that recent studies by Stanford showed absolutely no impact of organic food on health outcomes. They do it to say they give their children raw milk, whole foods, etc...they are insecure and needing to validate their parenting by thinking they are better parents because of choices like this.


I'm not a raw milk person, but to be clear on that Stanford study:
"Based on data from 237 previously conducted studies, the Stanford report concluded that when it comes to certain nutrients, there is not much difference between organic and conventionally grown food. But it also found that organic foods have 31 percent lower levels of pesticides, fewer food-borne pathogens and more phenols, a substance believed to help fight cancer."
from http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/us/would-be-healthy-eaters-face-confusion-of-choices.html?pagewanted=all

And from the actual study:
"Conclusion: The published literature lacks strong evidence that organic foods are significantly more nutritious than conventional foods. Consumption of organic foods may reduce exposure to pesticide residues and antibiotic-resistant bacteria."
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1355685

It may be that organics are not more nutritious than conventionals, but most people I know who try to buy organics are more concerned about hormones, pesticides, etc.