I think this proves the OP's point. Some of the attitudes on here are pretty sad.

That said, it's not just America. Was in Germany last year and they seem even less tolerant of kids than Americans. Italy was totally different and one of the many reasons it's such a nice place to visit.

I don't understand the "it's a family gathering so kids must be there too because they are family." The key is for kids to spend a lot of good time with their family members. What's the point of a rule that the always have to be there? Do the adults disperse when the kids go to sleep just to avoid a super secret no-kid meeting that would somehow hard the children?

OP is sure quiet about what culture she is from....

That being said America isn't unfriendly to kids. It's probably behind Mexico and India, but way ahead of Europe and Japan.

Each wedding for my H family is different. Sometime there are kids and sometimes there aren't and I don't care either way. I know weddings are expensive. We did not have a wedding.

But.. at family gatherings kids are always there and very involved. Everybody contributes in some way. Nobody is banished to the basement.

Anonymous wrote:100% Italian here

I've never been to a relative's wedding where kids were invited.

teens, yes
kids, no

Home parties are different, of course, But anything fancy is off limits.

Anonymous wrote:I am American and I agree with you. Kids are sent to the basement and by the time they are teens they are hitting the liquor cabinet and parents wonder why.

I had a party recently and invited somebody with 3 boys. They send a very nice note saying this was the first time since they had children they felt comfortable at a party.

My H is Italian and when we get together there are kid and they are involved. They help cook and clean and they are part of the conversation. The older kids help with the younger kids and it is a community experience.

At my party I had very nice food but I am sure there is food kids will like - not fries and nuggets but maybe some pasta with butter or rolls with a chicken cutlet.

We make sure the kids are part of our environment and then the parents will go outside and be a part of their enjoyment - maybe a game of flag football or something.

Parents often don't want to be bothered. Kids do need to give the parents some time to talk to their friends and not interrupt but if you sit them in the basement with XBox they don't understand how to do that without being banished.

My kids are loud and fun and interesting. They still know how to talk and act in public. They know there is a different way to act at Wing Hub vs. Blacks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am American and I agree with you. Kids are sent to the basement and by the time they are teens they are hitting the liquor cabinet and parents wonder why.

I had a party recently and invited somebody with 3 boys. They send a very nice note saying this was the first time since they had children they felt comfortable at a party.

My H is Italian and when we get together there are kid and they are involved. They help cook and clean and they are part of the conversation. The older kids help with the younger kids and it is a community experience.

At my party I had very nice food but I am sure there is food kids will like - not fries and nuggets but maybe some pasta with butter or rolls with a chicken cutlet.

We make sure the kids are part of our environment and then the parents will go outside and be a part of their enjoyment - maybe a game of flag football or something.

Parents often don't want to be bothered. Kids do need to give the parents some time to talk to their friends and not interrupt but if you sit them in the basement with XBox they don't understand how to do that without being banished.

My kids are loud and fun and interesting. They still know how to talk and act in public. They know there is a different way to act at Wing Hub vs. Blacks.

I'm sorry, there is nothing more annoying than having an adult conversation with someone and then to have their teen/tween constantly answer for the mother/father and/or completely derail the conversation at hand. Kids have their place, in the next room with other kids.

They don't interrupt becuase they have learned not to. They learned though practice. Really you have a teen that does not know how to have a conversation and when not to interrupt. Sad.

I am fine with kids. It's the dipshit parents I take issue with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I must be American because I hate the experience of a culture where kids are everywhere all the time, at all hours of the night.

Then don't go to Wal-mart.

I've had the unfortunate experience to be so desparate enough to HAVE to go to a walmart at 11PM when nothing else was open and the amount of cranky, everly exhausted children that parents had dragged in there was pitiful.

What? I don't care if a kid is at Walmart at any hour. I'm not there for an adult experience.

Some cultures think you should take your small kids out to restaurants very late in the evening and just let them tizzy themselves to exhaustion. I don't care to be there for the tizzy.

If they are at wal-mart at 11, they were probably at Ruth Chris at 8.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I must be American because I hate the experience of a culture where kids are everywhere all the time, at all hours of the night.

Then don't go to Wal-mart.

I've had the unfortunate experience to be so desparate enough to HAVE to go to a walmart at 11PM when nothing else was open and the amount of cranky, everly exhausted children that parents had dragged in there was pitiful.

What? I don't care if a kid is at Walmart at any hour. I'm not there for an adult experience.

Some cultures think you should take your small kids out to restaurants very late in the evening and just let them tizzy themselves to exhaustion. I don't care to be there for the tizzy.

Anonymous wrote:I must be American because I hate the experience of a culture where kids are everywhere all the time, at all hours of the night.

Then don't go to Wal-mart.

I've had the unfortunate experience to be so desparate enough to HAVE to go to a walmart at 11PM when nothing else was open and the amount of cranky, everly exhausted children that parents had dragged in there was pitiful.

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid, and while I like her, and some/most of her friends, I don't, overall LIKE kids. After my daughter spent a week with her godmothers, I took her out to a nice Italian restaurant (nicer than Olive Garden) Wednesday as a welcome home. She's 9.

We sat, we ate, we talked, she showed me pictures of stuff she did and saw on her trip via her iPod Touch, we had a great time. Except that often we had to stop talking to wait for the kids at the next table to stop screaming/whining "Daaaaddy! Daddy I want chocolate! I want chocolate! DAAADDY!"

When my girl was young, if she started getting loud or screechy or whiney or in any way annoying others I took her outside to pull herself together. I am a single mom and would just alert a waitress or hostess or whoever that we were stepping outside. Now, if she's getting upset or bratty I tell her to go out and she can come back when she's changed her attitude or pulled her shit together. When she was throwing a fit at home over having to get dressed up about a wedding I finally told her I could RSVP that she won't be able to attend and I'll leave her home with a babysitter rather than have her negativity affecting the wedding, which isn't about her.

If on a flight she kicked the seat in front of her, once would be okay, followed by an apology. If she did it a second time and it wasn't an accident, I'd make her stand for the whole flight. I don't tolerate bad behavior, and am irritated by my fellow parents who do.

You've just described every Italian Restaurant on the planet.

I have a kid, and while I like her, and some/most of her friends, I don't, overall LIKE kids. After my daughter spent a week with her godmothers, I took her out to a nice Italian restaurant (nicer than Olive Garden) Wednesday as a welcome home. She's 9.

We sat, we ate, we talked, she showed me pictures of stuff she did and saw on her trip via her iPod Touch, we had a great time. Except that often we had to stop talking to wait for the kids at the next table to stop screaming/whining "Daaaaddy! Daddy I want chocolate! I want chocolate! DAAADDY!"

When my girl was young, if she started getting loud or screechy or whiney or in any way annoying others I took her outside to pull herself together. I am a single mom and would just alert a waitress or hostess or whoever that we were stepping outside. Now, if she's getting upset or bratty I tell her to go out and she can come back when she's changed her attitude or pulled her shit together. When she was throwing a fit at home over having to get dressed up about a wedding I finally told her I could RSVP that she won't be able to attend and I'll leave her home with a babysitter rather than have her negativity affecting the wedding, which isn't about her.

If on a flight she kicked the seat in front of her, once would be okay, followed by an apology. If she did it a second time and it wasn't an accident, I'd make her stand for the whole flight. I don't tolerate bad behavior, and am irritated by my fellow parents who do.

Anonymous wrote:OP here... we both have a VERY large family and had about 600 guests at the reception including non relatives. We both paid. We had planned for the wedding for two years, and no, we didn't go into debt using credit cards if anyone was wondering

I probably shouldn't have mentioned it, and didn't mean to bring it up to brag or anything, but to convey that when some people say of the like 'I paid alot for this party or other, and don't want it to be bothered by kids' that we also do the same at family functions, but that doesn't mean we think kids would 'mar' anything.

I no means expect unruly children to be the norm. I am not the type of person to bring a child to a non kid friendly movie, or nice restaurant, or let them run around in a casual restaurant, nor would I ever bring kids to a function that is for adults only...I do understand that teaching your children to be well behaved in public is expected and obviously the correct thing to do.

Just because you invited the whole village doesn't mean others want to. Also, many prople don't have $80,000 to drop on a wedding - if there's a cap, whether fiscal or space, every kid that is invited is an adult - a close friend, a relative, whatever - who isn't. Does that clear it up?

Agree with the OP that our American culture isn't welcoming to kids. Adults want to segregate themselves out. Someone on this board recommended the book 'Hold On To Your Kids' and I've mentioned it before. It talks about this problem quite a bit and why (like a PP mentioned) by the time out kids are teens, they're in the basement raiding the liquor cabinet.

Definitely worth a read if you're interested in this topic!

Anonymous wrote:I am an American, an I don't want to deal with other peoples children. I used to like them until I was hit by shopping carts in Shopper's while buying groceries and parents stood there and shrugged. I used to like them until I went to PG13 and R rated movies and 4 year olds were there, screaming because the movie was too scary and parents didn't leave with children who had no business at the movie in the first place. I used to like them until I was at a restaurant and a child running by my table smeared spaghetti sauce all over my skirt with her hands as she tripped and fell, screaming and disrupting an otherwise nice evening at not a family restaurant. Yes I have children, they go out, but they aren't allowed to act that way. I blame the parents but avoid their children. I don't know which ones know how to behave so I try to stay away from all of them. That's why.

+1

pp here - sorry, I meant "their adult time"