Anonymous wrote:I wasn't there when Sherman made the comment, but agree with other PPs that I think isn't a question of not recruiting potential private school families. I think what ACPS is trying to say is that it can provide a really great academic program, and that academically it can absolutely equal and/or exceed the academics at local privates. ACPS can also provide many non-academic amenities (clubs, sports) that are important in creating a good experience for any teenager.
What ACPS can NOT do is "recreate" an exact copy of a private school experience. I think this is was is meant when Sherman or someone else from ACPS is communicating with a parent who really wants St. Stephens St. Agnes, but for free! What those people really want is not just good academics, or good sports/clubs, etc. they want a private school experience. ACPS can't recreate that, so it's wise for them to be upfront about that, while still promoting the positive experience they can offer students.

+++ 1. Exactly right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of complaining why not take action and volunteer one day a week at your local public school and be a part of the solution? It takes a community to make real changes.

I did that, actually. For two years. And I realized things weren't going to get better. So, I took a different course of action. I left. And I'm one of very many who make this decision.

It's a chicken-and-egg thing. PP suggests my suggestions are at odds with each other -- why siphon off the best math students to TJ, e.g. The answer is you start doing some of these things you make school system overall a more attractive option to families who currently send their high achieving students elsewhere or move out of the district because of the school. Mort Sherman has made it plain that he has no interest in marketing the school system to the upper middle class white families in the system who choose to go elsewhere -- he doesn't want to try to compete with privates, he's said. I think that's a mistake. If you attract a better balance of abilities, you go a long way to fixing the problem. Making TJ not even an option is a turnoff to some families -- but if it's there, you might attract 10 families who hold out hope their kid might be admitted, even if only 1 or 2 actually make it. So, it's a leadership problem too.

For a reality check, I think the idea that they could "siphon" all the best Math students is pretty silly. That's like saying there is maybe less than 5 really good high school Math students in all of TC Williams. Not every really good Math and Science student gets accepted to TJ or goes. So at most we are talking a few kids from Alexandria attending. Also, I thought TJ limited the number of students that could attend from neighboring counties.

I wasn't there when Sherman made the comment, but agree with other PPs that I think isn't a question of not recruiting potential private school families. I think what ACPS is trying to say is that it can provide a really great academic program, and that academically it can absolutely equal and/or exceed the academics at local privates. ACPS can also provide many non-academic amenities (clubs, sports) that are important in creating a good experience for any teenager.
What ACPS can NOT do is "recreate" an exact copy of a private school experience. I think this is was is meant when Sherman or someone else from ACPS is communicating with a parent who really wants St. Stephens St. Agnes, but for free! What those people really want is not just good academics, or good sports/clubs, etc. they want a private school experience. ACPS can't recreate that, so it's wise for them to be upfront about that, while still promoting the positive experience they can offer students.

Anonymous wrote:I highly doubt that Mort Sherman is against private school families. As a matter of fact, I believe ACPS bends over backwards trying to attract those families. They have walk-through dates at least once a month ...

I can guarantee you that ACPS actively recruits private school families. They just don't do so through the typical private school mechanics of fancy brochures. What has happened over the last several years is that many (not all - not claiming that) of the area private schools have simply not put up a terribly strong academic showing. By contrast, a number of the ACPS schools are doing very well. Some of the ACPS elementaries (not all, but a number) are viewed by many parents (but, again, not all) as academically superior to the area privates. Several ACPS schools had new-enrollment information sessions for parents who are considering moving their children from privates into ACPS. We moved our DC from private to ACPS several years ago, and could not be more delighted. Sherman's comment about not marketing to private school families from something like three years ago has been taken way out of context. They indeed do not market; no marketing is needed. But they do very actively facilitate.

Anonymous wrote:

Mort Sherman has made it plain that he has no interest in marketing the school system to the upper middle class white families in the system who choose to go elsewhere -- he doesn't want to try to compete with privates, he's said. I think that's a mistake. If you attract a better balance of abilities, you go a long way to fixing the problem.

Ok, but realistically, what incentive does Sherman have to do this? Yes, many families may move, but many will also choose to stay and go private. The schools get the tax dollars from those families, but don't have to expend money providing them with an education.

presumably he wants to keep his $250,000 per year job?

*weird

10:59 here -based on pp comment, I stand corrected.


Just wierd that ACPS does those open-houses then. When I asked why we do them, that was the reason I was given.

I highly doubt that Mort Sherman is against private school families. As a matter of fact, I believe ACPS bends over backwards trying to attract those families.

No one said he is "against private school families." But I have been at a meeting where, in response to a direct question about trying to attact students who would otherwise go to private schools, Mr. Sherman said that private school was a great option for some families, and he did not intend to compete with private schools for those students. Frankly, I am not certain why ACPS would currently want to attract more students, when it is struggling to provide sufficient capacity at the elementary level for the students it already has.

I highly doubt that Mort Sherman is against private school families. As a matter of fact, I believe ACPS bends over backwards trying to attract those families. They have walk-through dates at least once a month and frankly, this is at the expense of the students that have already chosen to be at an ACPS school. It is incredibly awkward to try to teach a class of 20, when people are non-discreetly walking in and out of your room during class and there are almost as many visitors in the room as students. It is a huge distraction for the students and for me as the teacher.

What I am trying to say is that it could be better run as to limit the impact on our current students (and teachers), but that ACPS really does want to attract more students.

As far as the APS poster's suggestions... I thought many were great. Although I do want to clarify that ACPS already has an open enrollment for honors classes, and capstone projects are in the works. They have already implemented transfer tasks for each unit which are basically end of unit projects in which they apply skills they have learned.

I agree that a lot of money is wasted on consultants and for the most part, I feel that money could be better allocated toward more electives, textbooks for each kid for every class, field trip budgets, and after school programs etc... The district also seems to be a bit top heavy.

I do not agree with the comment about the clinic or daycare. Being healthy is a factor in learning. If a student is unwell, they won't be able to focus in their classes. Some students don't have the resources to go to a doctor when they aren't feeling well - the clinic is not just there for pregnancies.

Mort Sherman has made it plain that he has no interest in marketing the school system to the upper middle class white families in the system who choose to go elsewhere -- he doesn't want to try to compete with privates, he's said. I think that's a mistake. If you attract a better balance of abilities, you go a long way to fixing the problem.

Ok, but realistically, what incentive does Sherman have to do this? Yes, many families may move, but many will also choose to stay and go private. The schools get the tax dollars from those families, but don't have to expend money providing them with an education.

Anonymous wrote:

It's a chicken-and-egg thing. PP suggests my suggestions are at odds with each other -- why siphon off the best math students to TJ, e.g. The answer is you start doing some of these things you make school system overall a more attractive option to families who currently send their high achieving students elsewhere or move out of the district because of the school. Mort Sherman has made it plain that he has no interest in marketing the school system to the upper middle class white families in the system who choose to go elsewhere -- he doesn't want to try to compete with privates, he's said. I think that's a mistake. If you attract a better balance of abilities, you go a long way to fixing the problem. Making TJ not even an option is a turnoff to some families -- but if it's there, you might attract 10 families who hold out hope their kid might be admitted, even if only 1 or 2 actually make it. So, it's a leadership problem too.

On the first point, I think it's a question of tone. For too long, TC emphasized that it offered a private school education in a public school environment to the upper middle class whites - at the expense of the rest of the school and to the amusement of those in privates and other school systems. Far better to let go those who really want either a private-school education or a public school education in a school like Yorktown that is not as diverse. I think it's entirely appropriate to send the message that TC knows it has challenges; it is seeking to meet the needs of all its students; top students can get a great education there; and TC is best for families who are willing to be part of a school community as complex at TC and don't need to pretend they are really at St. Stephen's.

On the second point, I agree with you. Closing off TJ as an option sends the wrong message. Opening up TJ to APS students would attract more families who are at least thinking about TJ as a possibility and it would raise the bar for the APS middle schools, since people would look to see how many kids from Hammond and GW were getting admitted.

Anonymous wrote:Instead of complaining why not take action and volunteer one day a week at your local public school and be a part of the solution? It takes a community to make real changes.

I did that, actually. For two years. And I realized things weren't going to get better. So, I took a different course of action. I left. And I'm one of very many who make this decision.

It's a chicken-and-egg thing. PP suggests my suggestions are at odds with each other -- why siphon off the best math students to TJ, e.g. The answer is you start doing some of these things you make school system overall a more attractive option to families who currently send their high achieving students elsewhere or move out of the district because of the school. Mort Sherman has made it plain that he has no interest in marketing the school system to the upper middle class white families in the system who choose to go elsewhere -- he doesn't want to try to compete with privates, he's said. I think that's a mistake. If you attract a better balance of abilities, you go a long way to fixing the problem. Making TJ not even an option is a turnoff to some families -- but if it's there, you might attract 10 families who hold out hope their kid might be admitted, even if only 1 or 2 actually make it. So, it's a leadership problem too.

Instead of complaining why not take action and volunteer one day a week at your local public school and be a part of the solution? It takes a community to make real changes.

I agree - fixing the problem should not mean breaking the areas that may actually be working. If some kids needs are being met - why
focus on the achievers as somehow flawed? What purpose would that serve? The point should be to elevate those that are not achieving.

What specifically would you do to "integrate the kids in the AP bubble?" Open AP classes to all who want to take them? Done. Place all kids in one school rather than create several different socioeconomically stratified schools? The goal of integrating the high achievers seems at odds with the other suggestions you make, such as siphoning off the top math students to TJ, or creating a separate vocational charter school (TC currently offers vocational courses at the main campus). I know several of the kids you might characterize as being in the AP "bubble" who took auto mechanics, culinary arts, etc. I don't think they would have chosen a different school with a vocational focus, however, so your suggestion would lead to more Balkanization.