Latin is not a foreign language, it is a dead one. Any kid, in my humble opinion, would be much better served mastering English + Spanish, Mandarin, or German.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPS: this discussion, and the equally fascinating discussion about how to achieve fluency, don't belong on OP's thread asking if her kid can do Latin in a MoCo middle school.

Why don't you start a new thread and call it something like "MoCo Middle Schools Suck for Foreign Languages," because that seems to be your agenda. Then others besides me, many of whom will also have had actual experience with MoCo middle schools (unlike you), can help me deal with you, because trust me, your unpleasantness is no picnic and my days of answering your aggressively worded insinuations are numbered.

Wow are you easy to wind up! I actually do have experience with both systems, and then switched for private, so please don't make assumptions. And really, if you think this is aggressive you haven't been on this board very long! Have a nice cool drink and relax. It's just a discussion about the availability of foreign language classes. Sheesh!

Of course there are ruder people than you. And people who make even stupider statements than your 7/13 "foreign languages are non-existent in MoCo." But the question is: why be rude or stupid at all?

It's just so unnecessary. Unless you're trying to justify those private school tuition payments or something (because that's what it looks like).

"stupider"? Awesome.
And please tell me ONE MoCo ES that offers foreign language as part of their regular curriculum. None of this FLES nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:I guess I've never quite understood the desire to learn Latin. One can read the classics in the original, I suppose.
However, learning, say, a romance language would enable one to talk to actual people, and one would also have access to popular music, news programs etc. in that language that many language teachers use to help students develop an ear for the language and move toward fluency more quickly.
While I've heard people argue that learning Latin give insight into English, I think much of the same insight can be gained from learning a romance language, since those are all based on Latin and many of the word roots are the same. Also, English really is more of a Germanic language.

I'd like my child to have a foriegn language immersion education AND the opportunity to study Latin. So I agree with you, but only to a point. Because Latin isn't currently spoken, it's obvious that it's not going to help you talk with anyone. But, because it's not currently spoken, its instruction (at least IME) is focused on mastery of intricate rules of grammar and syntax that helped with my mastery of English grammar -- past pluperfect? gerund? learned that first in Latin class. Latin is like algebra with words rather than numbers.

Study of Latin gave me an understanding of a completely different syntax that, at least for me, opened my mind to the fact that words and ideas are communicated in completely different ways in different languages. It helped me better understand English syntax and grammar, and and that of the Romance languages I studied later. It will help with English-language roots, vocab, etc. And that's fine for SATs. But, in my experience, its biggest benefit was a larger understanding of linguistics, and a reason to learn more about a period of history that otherwise was glossed over in my education. To set the bar really low -- because I'd translated Ceasar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars, I understood why Russell Crowe was wearing fur in the opening scenes of Gladiator.

Try online schools too: Scholars Online (http://www.scholarsonline.org) does.

SATs

I guess I've never quite understood the desire to learn Latin. One can read the classics in the original, I suppose.

However, learning, say, a romance language would enable one to talk to actual people, and one would also have access to popular music, news programs etc. in that language that many language teachers use to help students develop an ear for the language and move toward fluency more quickly.

While I've heard people argue that learning Latin give insight into English, I think much of the same insight can be gained from learning a romance language, since those are all based on Latin and many of the word roots are the same. Also, English really is more of a Germanic language.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPS: this discussion, and the equally fascinating discussion about how to achieve fluency, don't belong on OP's thread asking if her kid can do Latin in a MoCo middle school.

Why don't you start a new thread and call it something like "MoCo Middle Schools Suck for Foreign Languages," because that seems to be your agenda. Then others besides me, many of whom will also have had actual experience with MoCo middle schools (unlike you), can help me deal with you, because trust me, your unpleasantness is no picnic and my days of answering your aggressively worded insinuations are numbered.

Wow are you easy to wind up! I actually do have experience with both systems, and then switched for private, so please don't make assumptions. And really, if you think this is aggressive you haven't been on this board very long! Have a nice cool drink and relax. It's just a discussion about the availability of foreign language classes. Sheesh!

Of course there are ruder people than you. And people who make even stupider statements than your 7/13 "foreign languages are non-existent in MoCo." But the question is: why be rude or stupid at all?

It's just so unnecessary. Unless you're trying to justify those private school tuition payments or something (because that's what it looks like).

MATER DEI......Ora Pro Nobis.

Anonymous wrote:PPS: this discussion, and the equally fascinating discussion about how to achieve fluency, don't belong on OP's thread asking if her kid can do Latin in a MoCo middle school.

Why don't you start a new thread and call it something like "MoCo Middle Schools Suck for Foreign Languages," because that seems to be your agenda. Then others besides me, many of whom will also have had actual experience with MoCo middle schools (unlike you), can help me deal with you, because trust me, your unpleasantness is no picnic and my days of answering your aggressively worded insinuations are numbered.

Wow are you easy to wind up! I actually do have experience with both systems, and then switched for private, so please don't make assumptions. And really, if you think this is aggressive you haven't been on this board very long! Have a nice cool drink and relax. It's just a discussion about the availability of foreign language classes. Sheesh!

PPS: this discussion, and the equally fascinating discussion about how to achieve fluency, don't belong on OP's thread asking if her kid can do Latin in a MoCo middle school.

Why don't you start a new thread and call it something like "MoCo Middle Schools Suck for Foreign Languages," because that seems to be your agenda. Then others besides me, many of whom will also have had actual experience with MoCo middle schools (unlike you), can help me deal with you, because trust me, your unpleasantness is no picnic and my days of answering your aggressively worded insinuations are numbered.

^^^ Sorry for the typos, durn iPhone keyboard. But I wanted to answer quickly because I was worried that the stress of all that "awaiting" my response might take a toll on you.

You don't have to "await" my response for very long....

My earlier post, which got cut off, said that one of my kids (let's call that kid DC2) went through a MoCo ES language immersion program. Yes, I have 2 kids, I know that must shock you. I'm not totally sure what you're getting at here, although you serm to be implying something nefarious or ignorant on my part. But I'm here to tell you that MoCo immersion was on fact a good option for MY family, and for many others families. No, not everyone wins the lottery, and last I heard there were 200 applications for 50 slots at DC2's school. So a 25% chance of getting in -- not great, but let's stop minimizing this as "not a feasible alternative for most families," shall we?

At DC2's MoCo middle school (please understand, we're not talking about DC1 who did Latin in private MS), there were two foreign language options. Regular foreign language, and honors foreign language. DC2 took honors language in MoCo MS and I can vouch for the fact that it was equivalent to DC1's private school foreign language experiences. In fact, MoCo counts the honors class for HS credit, so yes, it is quite intense.

But no, MoCo does not offer Latin in MS, which was OP's original question. Spanish and French are offered in MS.

Do you have any other snottily-phrased questions I can try to answer gracefully? As you can see, I happen to have experience with both systems, unlike you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

(Latin in private MS is, obviously, is how DC came to be doing Latin 3 as a Moco freshman, which otherwise wouldn't have been possible.)

Exactly. And while your kids in private may have not become fluent taking a language three times a week, I assume they were exposed to the language, the culture, food, and music of the various countries that speak the language they were studying. Mine are.

And since you have a child in a MoCo immersion program, you understand how difficult it is to get into those programs, as so many families are vying for limited spaces. So my point stands. There is virtually no foreign language in MoCo public, until HS apparently. And how many times a week do they take a language in HS? Enough for fluency?

My point was: my kids took language in private ES and learned virtually nothing besides colors and body parts. Heck, I did language in private ES back in the day, and I learned virtually nothing. Furthermore, what you call "exposure" to the language, food and cultures wasn't very deep in ES. In any case, kids get deeper, more consistent "exposure" to other cultures when the more intensive language classes start in middle school.

I'm actually a great believer in starting languages young. I don't think either private or public schools do this well.

In fact, MoCo's immersion programs are the best approach I've seen, to language at least (we might find more common ground on the general badness of the rest of MoCo's ES curriculum). I see you made a valiant, but ultimately unsuccessful, attempt to write the immersion programs off as "virtually no foreign language in MoCo." No, your point doesn't still stand.

To answer your question: high school language classes are intense anywhere - in public schools and, I'm guessing, in private schools. But even this isn't really enough for fluency. I didn't become fluent until I lived abroad for a year. There have been other threads on how immersion is really the only way to reach fluency, if you do a search of DCUM.

Yesssss, except that your child went to PRIVATE MS. How intense are the PUBLIC MS language programs? Thanks for tipping your hat to my "valiant" effort, but as you well know, immersion programs are not a feasible alternative for most families. So please, educate me on the rigors of the MoCo public MS language program. At least my private ES kids are getting a foreign language, and my MS is in a challenging Latin program at her private. I await your response.

Anonymous wrote:

(Latin in private MS is, obviously, is how DC came to be doing Latin 3 as a Moco freshman, which otherwise wouldn't have been possible.)

Exactly. And while your kids in private may have not become fluent taking a language three times a week, I assume they were exposed to the language, the culture, food, and music of the various countries that speak the language they were studying. Mine are.

And since you have a child in a MoCo immersion program, you understand how difficult it is to get into those programs, as so many families are vying for limited spaces. So my point stands. There is virtually no foreign language in MoCo public, until HS apparently. And how many times a week do they take a language in HS? Enough for fluency?

My point was: my kids took language in private ES and learned virtually nothing besides colors and body parts. Heck, I did language in private ES back in the day, and I learned virtually nothing. Furthermore, what you call "exposure" to the language, food and cultures wasn't very deep in ES. In any case, kids get deeper, more consistent "exposure" to other cultures when the more intensive language classes start in middle school.

I'm actually a great believer in starting languages young. I don't think either private or public schools do this well.

In fact, MoCo's immersion programs are the best approach I've seen, to language at least (we might find more common ground on the general badness of the rest of MoCo's ES curriculum). I see you made a valiant, but ultimately unsuccessful, attempt to write the immersion programs off as "virtually no foreign language in MoCo." No, your point doesn't still stand.

To answer your question: high school language classes are intense anywhere - in public schools and, I'm guessing, in private schools. But even this isn't really enough for fluency. I didn't become fluent until I lived abroad for a year. There have been other threads on how immersion is really the only way to reach fluency, if you do a search of DCUM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moco seems to have had a lot of trouble recruiting Latin teachers. 3 years ago DD took Latin 3 as a high school freshman, and her school was sharing a Latin teacher with another Moco high school maybe 20 miles away, who was fired by both schools at the end of the year anyway (long story, lots of drama). Possibly a handful of MoCo schools have solid, long-standing Latin programs, but my impression is that the language isn't exactly thriving in MoCo.

Foreign languages in general are a joke in MoCo. Non-existent I would say. My kids in private have been taking Spanish 3x per week since K, and my MS child switched to Latin in 7th.

The lack of languages is just another example of MoCo's drill and kill curriculum.

That was my post. Actually, my kids took languages 3 times a week in private ES and learned very little besides colors and body parts, certainly nowhere near being able to converse. (Latin in private MS is, obviously, is how DC came to be doing Latin 3 as a Moco freshman, which otherwise wouldn't have been possible.) My kid who did MoCo immersion, however, is fluent. Apart from immersion, foreign language starts in MoCo in 7th grade, although not for Latin which starts in HS. In MoCo my kids have had some not-so-great language teachers and some great language teachers. DD's experience with Latin seems to have been the exception not the rule. Anyway, this little sidetrack - your uninformed rant and this response - are taking us away from OP's question.

(Latin in private MS is, obviously, is how DC came to be doing Latin 3 as a Moco freshman, which otherwise wouldn't have been possible.)

Exactly. And while your kids in private may have not become fluent taking a language three times a week, I assume they were exposed to the language, the culture, food, and music of the various countries that speak the language they were studying. Mine are.

And since you have a child in a MoCo immersion program, you understand how difficult it is to get into those programs, as so many families are vying for limited spaces. So my point stands. There is virtually no foreign language in MoCo public, until HS apparently. And how many times a week do they take a language in HS? Enough for fluency?