Anonymous
Post 07/07/2012 07:51     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Pro Choice.

But I believe that life begins at conception. I like the comparison I read several years ago. If your child were dying of kidney disease and the only way to save him was to donate your kidney, you should have a choice. It's your body. No one has the right to force you to have major surgery and lose a vital organ. However, I think most parents would chose to risk possible ill effects or even death to save a child. To me abortion is the same thing. Life begins at conception. But the government doesn't have the right to force women to carry a baby to term.


But a fetus isn't an organ, like a kidney.


ah, the govt can force a mom to care for and feed a 1 week old baby - that is more work and more intrusive than carrying a fetus around. I think it becomes a human sometime around 2-3 months.


Ah, not really. Mothers can abandon the child to the state under safe haven laws.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2012 01:19     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
My thoughts and feelings have changed over the years after going through IVF and having children.

I think that a zygote is a human being. It may not be viable and it can't think/feel yet, but it's the earliest form of a human being. I do think of our frozen embryos as our babies. I would now never, ever consider an abortion for myself (not true when I was younger).

That said, I'm pro-choice. As a PP mentioned, abortion is a necessary evil. Haven't decided the point at which I think there should be a cut off, if any - when the fetus can think/feel? just prior to viability? not sure.

I think our biggest downfall as a society is not providing better birth control/education. Or the incentives for sterilization - nice! Or even support for adoption.

I'm agnostic, if it matters.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 23:50     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
When I saw my son on the ultrasound at 13 weeks he looked pretty human to me. At 8 weeks, not so much.

Pro choice.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 22:45     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:[b]
Anonymous wrote:Very pro choice here. I would agree to restricting abortion to say the first x number of weeks, a definitely NOT viable number like 14, except in cases of risk to the life of the mother.

What I do NOT want is my freaking state legislature writing laws which talk about vaginas and menstrual periods. Leave it to the woman and her doctor to determine the gestation with generally medically accepted methods. SO pissed off when elected representatives start talking about lady business.



But isn't there a big enough grey area with abortion, that elected representatives pretty much need to deal with it? Using your logic, abortion should be a free for all. A woman would be able to terminate for any reason right up to delivery, assuming she could find a physician willing to go along with it.


I can see a law stating no abortions after x weeks.

But the law should leave the determination of the gestation to a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL. Not a legislature stating that I have been pregnant from the first day of my last menstrual cycle. For example, according to a bill in AZ I am pregnant RIGHT NOW. Better schedule that abortion early and often!
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 21:23     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Birth.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 19:26     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At the point of viability, or when the mother decides she wants to have the baby, whichever comes first.

As a short answer to a complex question, that captures an amazing amount of what I feel.

So if a mother in on the fence and finally decides she wants the baby when the fetus is 7 mos, does that mean you think it isn't viable until 7 mos in utero?

There are two independent issues specified here. One is viability, which is a physical/biological/technical question, and the mother's feelings, which is an emotional (and possibly religious) issue. Nobody is saying that viability is determined by the mother's feelings.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 18:43     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Pro Choice.

But I believe that life begins at conception. I like the comparison I read several years ago. If your child were dying of kidney disease and the only way to save him was to donate your kidney, you should have a choice. It's your body. No one has the right to force you to have major surgery and lose a vital organ. However, I think most parents would chose to risk possible ill effects or even death to save a child. To me abortion is the same thing. Life begins at conception. But the government doesn't have the right to force women to carry a baby to term.


But a fetus isn't an organ, like a kidney.


ah, the govt can force a mom to care for and feed a 1 week old baby - that is more work and more intrusive than carrying a fetus around. I think it becomes a human sometime around 2-3 months.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 17:15     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:Life begins at conception. I would say for myself that I am against abortion - but I think the choice should be available. But life still begins at conception. If you are going to have an abortion you might as well deal with the reality that a life is being lost.


+1
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 17:12     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:Pro Choice.

But I believe that life begins at conception. I like the comparison I read several years ago. If your child were dying of kidney disease and the only way to save him was to donate your kidney, you should have a choice. It's your body. No one has the right to force you to have major surgery and lose a vital organ. However, I think most parents would chose to risk possible ill effects or even death to save a child. To me abortion is the same thing. Life begins at conception. But the government doesn't have the right to force women to carry a baby to term.


But a fetus isn't an organ, like a kidney.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 17:11     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At the point of viability, or when the mother decides she wants to have the baby, whichever comes first.

As a short answer to a complex question, that captures an amazing amount of what I feel.


So if a mother in on the fence and finally decides she wants the baby when the fetus is 7 mos, does that mean you think it isn't viable until 7 mos in utero?
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 16:18     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:I believe that a fetus is a human being from after the first trimester. I however embraced the life growing within in me from the beginnings of each of my pregnancies. I am sure a first trimester miscarriage would have devastated me.

I am pro-choice.


I completely agree with your sentiments. My miscarriage was relatively early and I was devastated.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 15:43     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Pro Choice.

But I believe that life begins at conception. I like the comparison I read several years ago. If your child were dying of kidney disease and the only way to save him was to donate your kidney, you should have a choice. It's your body. No one has the right to force you to have major surgery and lose a vital organ. However, I think most parents would chose to risk possible ill effects or even death to save a child. To me abortion is the same thing. Life begins at conception. But the government doesn't have the right to force women to carry a baby to term.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 15:36     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
I believe that a fetus is a human being from after the first trimester. I however embraced the life growing within in me from the beginnings of each of my pregnancies. I am sure a first trimester miscarriage would have devastated me.

I am pro-choice.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 15:36     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Life begins at conception. I would say for myself that I am against abortion - but I think the choice should be available. But life still begins at conception. If you are going to have an abortion you might as well deal with the reality that a life is being lost.


But this doesn't correspond to most people's emotional reality. Most people don't mourn the loss of an early miscarriage the same way they would mourn the loss of a stillbirth or child's death. Most people are much more comfortable with abortion in the early stages, than they are with later-term abortions. The "life" being lost when it's a zygote just is not the same thing as the life being lost when it's fully developed. Certainly, most parents doing IVF discard embryos without too much trauma ... because they never really regarded those embryos as babies, but rather as potential babies. Thus, a zygote/embryo is not really fully human, in my opinion, if we define "human" as an entity that is on par with all other humans. "Life" and "human being" are not the same thing -- just think about it, a dead body is a human being, but there is no life. Similarly, an embryo is alive, but not a human being.


I definitely mourned my miscarriage (although I have not had a stillbirth to compare it to). For someone to tell me that the fetus I was carrying wasn't a child. My child. Is very upsetting. But this is just how I feel. I know others don't necessarily feel the same and I do see what you are saying.


I totally get that women mourn any miscarriage of a wanted baby! But it's different, right, than a child or a zygote. You probably wouldn't have mourned the same way for a chemical miscarriage (ie 2 week zygote) as you would for even someone else's actually born baby or for a miscarriage at 12 weeks. And if you did IVF, you'd probably consider the discarded embryos as just a cost of the procedure, not something to be really very upset about.


Actually I find it quite bothersome that there are "discarded embyros". But that is how I feel. I totally understand and accept that there are other viewpoints.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 15:23     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:God said " I knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb"....the answer of course , is at conception.


Wouldn't that mean before conception?
yes, but we can only control the fate of the soul after conception.


Not really. We control whether we have sex and whether we use contraception. Under the "God knew you before you were conceived" rationale, any hot christian woman is obliged to have sex with me on the theory that only God knows whether we would conceive a child if we had sex and it would be like killing that child if we didn't have sex.