OP - what are you hoping to gain here, from people who never met your kid? You've had him evaluated by numerous clinicians, yet you're trolling the internet to get some alternative "diagnosis" from DCUM - something that will validate your feelings?

Maybe no one should be sweating the condition or the disorder. Instead sweat how this is going to play out over time---parents of kids with significant behavioral/social issues: there will come a time (and it will come sooner than you'll believe) when no one will care what the diagnosis or condition is: if you can't manage yourself and your relations with others you risk being friendless, jobless, and in trouble legally. There is no IEP/ADA/504 that will get you friends, maintain you in higher ed., keep you in a job, or out of prison if you can't behave appropriately. I've seen it time and time again. Please focus on behavioral interventions at home as the utmost priority, as ultimately your kid will pay the highest price for this part of his/her disability.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DS was served fruit on the same plate as his pancakes and he flipped out. He wanted them in a bowl. He also wanted the pancakes arranged in a spiral way like how dad does it. Dad started making bfast leately as I have a newborn to care for and Dad came up with this pancake spiral idea. The problem is his intense rigidity and the absolutely rudeness.

I'll add - the next day he wanted a waffle. I put it on the kitchen counter and asked him to get it. He wanted to eat it at the table. I said "baby's crying..I gotta run. Go get it." He says to me: "What, are you arm muscles broken?" Just rude, rude, rude and it upsets me. I am NOT a lazy mom at all.

DS does not have issues with tastes or textures at all..never has. His sensory issues is that he is a sensory craver. He touches every thing, every where. He also can't sit still at the dinner table, at restaurants, in class...

Some on this thread are assuming we have no consequences for DS for bad behavior. We do. We do timeout and loss of privileges. When he spoke to me that way, I told him he'd have to get his own snack when he was hungry that day. That day he made his own snack - toasted cinnamon raisin bread with butter.

Across the board every clinician we saw said he has adhd and spd. I know he has asd traits but he seems not to fit the asd mold. He is extremely communicative and social and doesn't stand out in these. But on the other hand he is rigid and inflexible and remember that he does have a perseveration with electronics. His therapist says he is gifted in that area so she isnt' sure if she'd call it a perseveration she said.

I would simply go with your gut on his diagnosis. What do YOU think he has? And treat the symptoms.

My AS/ASD son who was evaluated multiple times and every single time got a diagnosis of AS/ASD is not particularly rigid or inflexible. Has no problems with transitions. He is also "extremely communicative and social" with adults, even strangers, just not his peers. And apparently the "holy grail" for dx Asperger's to some, his eye contact is fine - normal. Has obsessive interests. Every ASD child is different as are ADHD and SPD kids. I wouldn't sweat the diagnosis as long as you're treating the symptoms.

Your description is not at all suggestive of an AS/ASD, though. And when they grow up....autistic kids actually appear pretty similar.

Believe what you want. You never met my child. The school psychologist, our private developmental pediatrician, and the team at the Center for Autism Spectrum Disorders, Children's Hospital, all concluded independently that he has Asperger's/ASD. My husband and I have no problem with his diagnosis and treat his symptoms accordingly. He's doing great.

This is exactly why PP is out of line when she offers her own opinion of a diagnosis. I think she has taken her crusade about over diagnosis too far. Three different clinicians . . . but she knows better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DS was served fruit on the same plate as his pancakes and he flipped out. He wanted them in a bowl. He also wanted the pancakes arranged in a spiral way like how dad does it. Dad started making bfast leately as I have a newborn to care for and Dad came up with this pancake spiral idea. The problem is his intense rigidity and the absolutely rudeness.

I'll add - the next day he wanted a waffle. I put it on the kitchen counter and asked him to get it. He wanted to eat it at the table. I said "baby's crying..I gotta run. Go get it." He says to me: "What, are you arm muscles broken?" Just rude, rude, rude and it upsets me. I am NOT a lazy mom at all.

DS does not have issues with tastes or textures at all..never has. His sensory issues is that he is a sensory craver. He touches every thing, every where. He also can't sit still at the dinner table, at restaurants, in class...

Some on this thread are assuming we have no consequences for DS for bad behavior. We do. We do timeout and loss of privileges. When he spoke to me that way, I told him he'd have to get his own snack when he was hungry that day. That day he made his own snack - toasted cinnamon raisin bread with butter.

Across the board every clinician we saw said he has adhd and spd. I know he has asd traits but he seems not to fit the asd mold. He is extremely communicative and social and doesn't stand out in these. But on the other hand he is rigid and inflexible and remember that he does have a perseveration with electronics. His therapist says he is gifted in that area so she isnt' sure if she'd call it a perseveration she said.

I would simply go with your gut on his diagnosis. What do YOU think he has? And treat the symptoms.

My AS/ASD son who was evaluated multiple times and every single time got a diagnosis of AS/ASD is not particularly rigid or inflexible. Has no problems with transitions. He is also "extremely communicative and social" with adults, even strangers, just not his peers. And apparently the "holy grail" for dx Asperger's to some, his eye contact is fine - normal. Has obsessive interests. Every ASD child is different as are ADHD and SPD kids. I wouldn't sweat the diagnosis as long as you're treating the symptoms.

Your description is not at all suggestive of an AS/ASD, though. And when they grow up....autistic kids actually appear pretty similar.

Believe what you want. You never met my child. The school psychologist, our private developmental pediatrician, and the team at the Center for Autism Spectrum Disorders, Children's Hospital, all concluded independently that he has Asperger's/ASD. My husband and I have no problem with his diagnosis and treat his symptoms accordingly. He's doing great.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DS was served fruit on the same plate as his pancakes and he flipped out. He wanted them in a bowl. He also wanted the pancakes arranged in a spiral way like how dad does it. Dad started making bfast leately as I have a newborn to care for and Dad came up with this pancake spiral idea. The problem is his intense rigidity and the absolutely rudeness.

I'll add - the next day he wanted a waffle. I put it on the kitchen counter and asked him to get it. He wanted to eat it at the table. I said "baby's crying..I gotta run. Go get it." He says to me: "What, are you arm muscles broken?" Just rude, rude, rude and it upsets me. I am NOT a lazy mom at all.

DS does not have issues with tastes or textures at all..never has. His sensory issues is that he is a sensory craver. He touches every thing, every where. He also can't sit still at the dinner table, at restaurants, in class...

Some on this thread are assuming we have no consequences for DS for bad behavior. We do. We do timeout and loss of privileges. When he spoke to me that way, I told him he'd have to get his own snack when he was hungry that day. That day he made his own snack - toasted cinnamon raisin bread with butter.

Across the board every clinician we saw said he has adhd and spd. I know he has asd traits but he seems not to fit the asd mold. He is extremely communicative and social and doesn't stand out in these. But on the other hand he is rigid and inflexible and remember that he does have a perseveration with electronics. His therapist says he is gifted in that area so she isnt' sure if she'd call it a perseveration she said.

I would simply go with your gut on his diagnosis. What do YOU think he has? And treat the symptoms.

My AS/ASD son who was evaluated multiple times and every single time got a diagnosis of AS/ASD is not particularly rigid or inflexible. Has no problems with transitions. He is also "extremely communicative and social" with adults, even strangers, just not his peers. And apparently the "holy grail" for dx Asperger's to some, his eye contact is fine - normal. Has obsessive interests. Every ASD child is different as are ADHD and SPD kids. I wouldn't sweat the diagnosis as long as you're treating the symptoms.

Your description is not at all suggestive of an AS/ASD, though. And when they grow up....autistic kids actually appear pretty similar.

DS can be very rude too. He normally does not act out but when he does it's usually verbal. Today, he kept saying he did not want to share the coconut cream pie with his father. Wanted to eat it all by himself and kept repeating this. Finally, I had enough and told him, he would not get any pie if he won't share and be nice. Augh... don't think any of this has to do with AS - he was just being a nearly 5 yr old who wanted to push Mommy's buttons.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DS was served fruit on the same plate as his pancakes and he flipped out. He wanted them in a bowl. He also wanted the pancakes arranged in a spiral way like how dad does it. Dad started making bfast leately as I have a newborn to care for and Dad came up with this pancake spiral idea. The problem is his intense rigidity and the absolutely rudeness.

I'll add - the next day he wanted a waffle. I put it on the kitchen counter and asked him to get it. He wanted to eat it at the table. I said "baby's crying..I gotta run. Go get it." He says to me: "What, are you arm muscles broken?" Just rude, rude, rude and it upsets me. I am NOT a lazy mom at all.

DS does not have issues with tastes or textures at all..never has. His sensory issues is that he is a sensory craver. He touches every thing, every where. He also can't sit still at the dinner table, at restaurants, in class...

Some on this thread are assuming we have no consequences for DS for bad behavior. We do. We do timeout and loss of privileges. When he spoke to me that way, I told him he'd have to get his own snack when he was hungry that day. That day he made his own snack - toasted cinnamon raisin bread with butter.

Across the board every clinician we saw said he has adhd and spd. I know he has asd traits but he seems not to fit the asd mold. He is extremely communicative and social and doesn't stand out in these. But on the other hand he is rigid and inflexible and remember that he does have a perseveration with electronics. His therapist says he is gifted in that area so she isnt' sure if she'd call it a perseveration she said.

I would simply go with your gut on his diagnosis. What do YOU think he has? And treat the symptoms.

My AS/ASD son who was evaluated multiple times and every single time got a diagnosis of AS/ASD is not particularly rigid or inflexible. Has no problems with transitions. He is also "extremely communicative and social" with adults, even strangers, just not his peers. And apparently the "holy grail" for dx Asperger's to some, his eye contact is fine - normal. Has obsessive interests. Every ASD child is different as are ADHD and SPD kids. I wouldn't sweat the diagnosis as long as you're treating the symptoms.

OP here. DS was served fruit on the same plate as his pancakes and he flipped out. He wanted them in a bowl. He also wanted the pancakes arranged in a spiral way like how dad does it. Dad started making bfast leately as I have a newborn to care for and Dad came up with this pancake spiral idea. The problem is his intense rigidity and the absolutely rudeness.

I'll add - the next day he wanted a waffle. I put it on the kitchen counter and asked him to get it. He wanted to eat it at the table. I said "baby's crying..I gotta run. Go get it." He says to me: "What, are you arm muscles broken?" Just rude, rude, rude and it upsets me. I am NOT a lazy mom at all.

DS does not have issues with tastes or textures at all..never has. His sensory issues is that he is a sensory craver. He touches every thing, every where. He also can't sit still at the dinner table, at restaurants, in class...

Some on this thread are assuming we have no consequences for DS for bad behavior. We do. We do timeout and loss of privileges. When he spoke to me that way, I told him he'd have to get his own snack when he was hungry that day. That day he made his own snack - toasted cinnamon raisin bread with butter.

Across the board every clinician we saw said he has adhd and spd. I know he has asd traits but he seems not to fit the asd mold. He is extremely communicative and social and doesn't stand out in these. But on the other hand he is rigid and inflexible and remember that he does have a perseveration with electronics. His therapist says he is gifted in that area so she isnt' sure if she'd call it a perseveration she said.

Nobody is quick to say its anything, just that OP should get a good evaluation.

Wait wait wait wait - someone needs to explain to me what the real issue is with the "peaches and pancakes". Is the issue that this little boy does not want them on the same plate, has to have them arranged in a certain way, or how he reacted to mom when she did this initially? And HOW does this lend itself to ASD?

I guess maybe taken in the context that OP describes, I don't see this at all as any sort of indication of a spectrum disorder or OCD. The child has sensory processing issues. Eating is an EXTREMELY sensory-intensive activity. I can totally see why a child with certain sensory issues would not want to have fruit touching pancakes, and would even get very upset about it. My 7yo son with ADHD and SPD has some legitimate sensory issues when it comes to food - specifically texture and smell - that make him very picky about what is arranged in front of him and how. His sometimes explosive reaction when things aren't done to his "satisfaction" is definitely the ADHD. He doesn't have the right to yell and scream at us about it, and if he gets really nasty there are consequences (e.g., no dessert, no TV, unless you apologize and find a way to make up for your behavior). My daughter with autism does not have these issues.

I'm just not sure we should be so quick to say - ASD and/or OCD. I see ADHD and SPD playing into this, which is what they boy has been diagnosed with.

You need to see a good developmental pediatrician for a full evaluation. Don't ask strangers on the internet, get a real doctor's opinion.

Kids with OCD can be rigid by ritualized behavior is more of the defining characteristic. In any event, if it is OCD or ASD you need to do something about it. And also get a behaviorist on board. What are you waiting for?

OP here. As far as parenting goes, we used to help him in the shower until age six. After age six he began to learn to shower himself. We taught him how to soap up, how to clean his body, how to shampoo, etc..We continued to towel dry him occasionally to help expedite bed time.

He was just in one his bad moods that day and when he gets frustrated, he becomes more insistent on things.

He has been dx has having ASD by one psychiatrist but that psychiatrist met with him for only 45 minutes and in our second appt did not remember his name or anything from his case. He told us in the first appt he was not ASD. In the second appt when he didn't even remember him, he told us he had ASD. So granted we saw several professionals to see what others thought also.

Across the board everybody thought he had ADHD though. Recently his psychiatrist (new one) said he had symptoms of OCD.

Granted ASD kids also show rigidity. But so do ADHD kids and OCD kids. Its hard to distinguish these.

I think a lot of people are saying a lot of different things here. If you want to take insult selectively, that's what you want to do. I don't see any evidence of a child being the prisoner of intrusive thoughts and I wasn't accusing this child of violent behavior.

But I'm not going to argue about hypothetical children with hypothetical disorders. My response was based on the information given. Appsarently you agree that parenting could be better, so let's leave it at that.

First of all, OP isn't talking about OCD, that was brought up by a subsequent post. Second, no one here -- I WILL SAY THIS LOUDLY NOW -- is saying that this isn't a behavior problem, that the parents couldn't do better, and that they haven't dropped the ball here. OK, go back and read the posts, we all agree about that. but it is also true that a child can have a developmental disorder AND behavior problems and that the former both increase the latter and make it more difficult to address. I feel like a broken record here. I don't know what your child's issues are, but I have a child with an ASD and we have worked very, very hard to address certain behaviors. We have done so, OP should do so, but it isn't easy. I don't think you have any idea.

Also, you clearly know NOTHING about OCD. NOTHING. It is not a disorder of behavior, that is only the outward manifestation. It is a chemical disorder of the brain that affects cognition, perception, and mostly intrusive thoughts. People with OCD do not attack people, do not engage in sexual assault and it is highly, highly insulting for you to put out there that these behaviors are associated with the disorder. People with OCD engage in ritualized behaviors, repetitive type behaviors. And they cannot be controlled. Or rather, if the behaviors are somehow stymied, the intrusive thoughts become overwhelming. I have written this over and over again and I don't think you are reading my posts.

Maybe you are saying that if someone has OCD and just happens to be a sexual predator, we shouldn't excuse the criminal behavior. Well, DUH! Nobody would disagree with that. But the predatory behavior would have nothing to do with the OCD and this certainly has nothing to do with what anyone has posted here.

You are making very reductionist arguments about what others are posting, distorting what we are saying, and completely misunderstanding the nature of both OCD and ASDs. I can pretty much conclude that your child has neither of these disorders because of the ignorance you display. Go back and reread the posts before you distort what we are saying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, what about a hypothetical kid who has OCD and insists that his peaches be on a separate plate from his pancakes?

Is that "poor behavior"? Does it require "parenting" to change that behavior?

The problem with this example is that there are many, many kids WITHOUT OCD who insist on this as well. It's a parents job to say no.

This makes no sense. if it is OCD, a parent shouldn't just say no. As I wrote before, that doesn't stop the intrusive thoughts and just causes suffering. If it is OCD, the parent should take the child to a medical professional for treatment.

There are a lot of kids who have no diagnosis at all, and are happy and well-adjusted and have friends and don't fixate on things and have empathy and don't perseverate and also ask to have their peaches on a separate plate from their pancakes. Yes, you are a genius to identify that. But it isn't what this thread about, that isn't OP's child.

Do you have a child with special needs? How do you feel when another parent judges you because of your child's behavior? If you don't have a child with special needs and have never been in that position, perhaps that explains your lack of empathy. And, once again, no one is advocating that OP should tolerate this behavior. But she isn't going to solve it without professional help and all your judging may make you feel superior but it isn't going to help.

Yeah, I do. In fact I have a kid with severe special needs. And I know the difference between attributing behavior to a disability, and enabling bad behavior. And the difference between empathy, and just plain letting a kid get away with bullshit.

There are a number of qualities to OP's post that speak to issues with parenting and behavior that are concerning regardless of whether the behavior can be attributed to a "disorder." The fact that this child is helped by his parents to shower (towel off) at age eight. The fact that his parents serve him food at age eight. What is the reason for this? It's not OCD. It's not ADHD. It's enabling infantile behavior. It's enabling obnoxious behavior. It's not a symptom of either disorder that this child is infantilized and that age-appropriate expectations for his behavior are not reinforced.

It's not doing this kid a favor, regardless of whether the "peaches on the plate" phenomenon is caused by intrusive thoughts/perseveration or just being a kid to allow this behavior to disrupt the home. It can't go on. It's unacceptable behavior. Those of you who say it can't be controlled -- do you accept that argument when this child has violent thoughts and perseverations? If an adult with OCD needs to attack someone, or sexually abuse, is that your response as well? That he simply can't control himself? Because basically that's the argument you are making, that he simply can't be held accountable for any thought in his head.

Sorry, not true. He is responsible for having self-control regardless of his disorder. It may be more difficult for him but we don't allow him to go without any control or parental expectations. What is he, a wild animal?