but there is a perception that EH has a greater percentage of low-income kids than SH-- or, more ot the point, there are more high-income kids at SH than EH.

Not just a perception, reality - EH's population is 85% FARMs (free and reduced meals) while SH's is a little less than half. Without a test-in gifted and talented programs at both SH and EH (none planned), the Hill MS development plan is probably pie in the sky when it comes to drawing in a sizeable cohort of middle-class families. I'd wager that, sadly, EH (1% white) will remain a no-go zone for well-educated parents indefinitely. Two or three years ago, you saw more momentum for turning both neighborhood middle schools around; now the Brent, Maury and Tyler SI parents are a lot more inclinded to think "go charter" for MS and for good reason.

School choice concerns vis a vis family creation creep up on you faster than you might think: decisions need to be made for pres 3, especially if your IB school is unlikely to be a good option all the way up, turning around struggling ES schools from top to bottom takes a good decade, and neighborhood middle schools may never be v. good. We bought in the J.O. Wilson district while childless 8 years ago, then moved to the Brent District as soon as we could afford to, even before we had our first child, of two. J.O. Wilson was almost 100% AA and low-income when we bought there, and still is above PreS 3 & 4.

I no longer buy the, just wait and get involved on the PTA and it will all happen line...

Hillcrest is a wonderful neighborhood.

Boy....common sense really is a rarity.

Here's a solution...Check out Hillcrest neighborhood or many of the other underrated neighborhoods in this town. Spend about $300-400 on a single family home with lots of yard, play the school lottery, and if that doesn't work out, you still have $400K to send your future child to the best of private schools in this area.

http://www.hillcrestdc.com/

Anonymous wrote:Re pp 2141

Why do people think that Watkins is "big, crazy with low income kids" and yet want to have their elementary schools feed to SH instead of EH? .

You ask a good question. I'm a Brent parent and I would consider S-H over E-H because it is much closer to my home than EH. I think that is true for all of us IB for Brent. SH is also smaller than EH-- it least it looks like it from the outside. So if you value small over large, you'd likely prefer SH over EH. "Crazy with low-income kids"-- your words, not mine-- but there is a perception that EH has a greater percentage of low-income kids than SH-- or, more ot the point, there are more high-income kids at SH than EH.

Please correct me if I am wrong about SH being closer, being smaller, and being higher SES than EH.

Thanks!

Re pp 2141

Why do people think that Watkins is "big, crazy with low income kids" and yet want to have their elementary schools feed to SH instead of EH? Just where do they think these bad Watkins kids go? I'm very interested to see what SH looks like in the next few years with the combination of the renovation, uniforms AND the large amount of high SES kids bailing out from the 4th and 5th grade at Watkins.

To the OP --- you can't even imagine what the Hill will look like in a few years and you aren't even pregnant yet. Find a house you like with a good commute.

When making the decision, keep in mind that "turning a school around" is not the manageable exercise it was 5 years ago. Changing neighborhood demographics don't tell the whole story. When the Brent parents had their building renovated in 2005, there were few good options on the Hill, even for the lower ES grades. They rallied, drew in well-educated parents from other districts (the PTA president was a Ludlow-Taylor IB parent) and stayed the course - impressive. Now you see schools like Payne and Ludlow-Taylor struggling to keep IB families after K from one year to the next, mainly because there are more "outs" with all the new charters and more room at Peabody since the School Within a School (SWS) program just left. Most of the intrepid Payne PTA PreK3 movers and shakers, for example, are off to charters for PreK 4. High PTA turnover means that some schools are bogged down by unpleasant racial polarization, with low to moderate-income AA parents, including PG County address cheaters, battling yuppie parents for control. So take rave reviews of the medium-term prospects of some of the HIll ES with a grain of salt, or maybe a bag....

If you can spend $800K on a house, you have enough resources to purchase a house that is in-bounds for good schools on the Hill. Friends of mine who are in-bounds for Brent are selling their 2-BR house in the mid-600s, and others are buying a 3-BR house that is in-bounds for the Cluster for the mid-500s. My 2-BR that is in-bounds for the Cluster recently appraised in the low 500s, and I've seen other houses that are in-bounds for Brent in the same price range. Some folks, as PPs noted, aren't huge fans of the Cluster, but I think you listed it as one of the schools you would like to be in-bounds for.

Yes there are charters and oob to pursue. But the longstanding reality in this and other cities is families contort themselves into pretzels to be able to live in the strongest school districts. Yes, commuting issues, affect that a bit, personal desires (love Eastern Market) a bit, but you are not in the mainstream of family RE buyers if you don't give very high weight to current school quality. Maybe that's fine with you. That's great, just so you understand the choice.

With 800 K to spend, I'd buy in the Brent or Maury Districts, period, and plan to go charter (Basis, Latin or another that comes along) for MS. If the family budget is a little tight, you can always get a place with an English basement rental (or just a basement and work with a contractor to create a rental) and pay half your mortgage renting to young Congressional staffer types. Loads of Hill middle-class families do just that.

Buying in the Brent District, after selling in the Ludlow-Taylor District, has given us great peace of mind for a baby and a toddler. Now that we know we'll have a good ES for both kids from at least K to 4th (and maybe pres3 and 4 and 5th) we can relax and enjoy life on the Hill.

Meanwhile, back in the LT District, former neighbors face serious lottery stress. Most seem to strike out for pres3 and wind up at LT ready to jump at the first acceptable out, if they ever get one. Same with parents in the Miner and Payne Districts. Peabody is great, but Watkins is big, crazy and has many low-income kids who struggle to test proficient on the DC-CAS tests (3rd grade+). We had our real doubts about the Cluster above K. Brent works for us and we enjoy meeting our children's future classmates in Marion/Turtle Park. Good luck.

We bought downtown b/c we don't like commuting and like walking to work. At the time our DC was 2, so we assumed we'll go private since the in boundry school was unacceptable and we spent under $400k for our rowhouse. Fast forward two yrs, for prek applied to two charters, one language immersion, one not. One highly regarded private. Got into all. The language immersion charter off the waitlist in May. Went with the immersion charter which was our first choice and a ten minute drive door to door. It can all work out.

There are numerous old threads on here with people complaining about their lack of options and how awful things are in DCPS. My general response to this is that people posting these threads (not including all citizens of DC here) often have more options than they are owning up to, although they might not like all of them (lose money on a house that is underwater, move to the burbs and have a nasty commute, etc.).

I was in your shoes 8 years ago sort of, but had a lot less info on charter schools, did not frequent DCUM, there was less easily accessible info. We were pregnant and buying a house, moving out of our 1 bedroom condo and we bought in a known quantity school district. I was aware of the well regarded JKLM schools in NW and knew there were some elementary schools on the hill that were doing good things. I never considered that middle or high school in DC public would be an option.

Fast forward 4 years later and I was applying for pre-K. Good in-boundary option, but not a lot of slots and I played the charter and DCPS lotteries. Was actually quite interested in charters that might be good for the long haul. I came up REALLY short in every lottery I entered. I got a decent waitlist number for our in-boundary pre-K, but it only moved 4 slots I think that year.

Knew we had a good option for K in-boundary, but played the lotteries again. Zippo, nada, nothing. Never called off a waitlist, etc. I do love our in-boundary school and much to my surprise middle and high school MAY be an option, so some things have changed for the better that I could not have predicted 8 y ears ago. That said, we would have had to move had we bought where I knew the schools were sub-par.

This all depends on the level of risk you feel comfortable taking. Reading your posts, you sound like a planner so maybe it is not so much.

Also, moving kids from school to school can be hard on the kids. Yes they are adaptable, but do not underestimate the toll the process of finding a school you and your children are happy with may take on you and your children. Whatever you choose, own it and realize that you had a choice. Good luck.

We recently bought in bounds for maury for under your budget. I would wait it out a bit longer and wait for the right house! A few less square feet is worth the tradeoff.

15:35 here. Yes, we have a rising PS3er. I didn't mean to complain; I know that our options are "fine." I just wanted to provide a real-world example that illustrates what the lottery process can look like for people who don't get lucky. I think sometimes people get a few years away from the process and either forget how stressful it was or don't realize how competitive things have gotten. Yes, most families wind up with a school that they are satisfied with, but that may involve lots of stress, compromise, and school-switching. If I was going to spend 800K on a house, I would certainly want to purchase where the inbounds school was a good, if not great, option. Of course the OP's situation is different from ours; just wanted to provide another POV.

15:35, do you have a rising PSer or a rising Pker? If rising PS you'll likely have more options by October. And anyway Bethune or Appletree should be fine for PS.

Ha, if you're having heartburn now, just wait until you start doing lotteries and waiting lists!