Anonymous wrote:I can't believe how many people actually think it's APPROPRIATE to have a subordinate do their dishes. Really? In a professional office setting there's no way in hell it would be appropriate for someone to be asked to do dishes who wasn't in custodial services.

I work in a federal courthouse; you wouldn't believe what employees do for judges. This guy sounds like he would be a PITA employee and co-worker.

A few thoughts:

1- I have rarely seen an admin assistant (or secretary as you call it) who isnt asked to handle personal things for their boss, esp if the boss is C-level. Our admin plans our boss' kid's birthday parties for goodness sake. Takes boss' shoes to the cobbler, etc. It goes back to what your time is worth to the company. If your time is worth thousands of dollars/hour, hundreds of dollars/hour, and you wish to ask someone else to do your dishes, I see nothing wrong with it. Caveat: when that person is hired, it should be clear that they are doing personal and business-related functions.

2- For all anyone knows the regular secretary is a kiss-ass who volunteered to do the dishes, so it has become a normal thing for boss not to do.

Eh, I mentioned higher ed not because I think it's "special" so much as that's the only work experience I've ever had. I've never worked in the private sector, so I don't know what the expectations are there.

And I can pretty much guarantee the dept. secretary doesn't do dishes.

If it were an infrequent thing and I were in a position of gopher or otherwise low on the totem pole, yes I would do it (and grumble inwardly). To a large extent, I think that "young" people today (I saw that as a 34 year old) have really unreasonable expectations about what their first jobs should be and how much time they need to put in before they're the bosses. Think of all the kids who grow up in this area who were raised with other people cleaning their houses, at best putting dishes in a dishwasher. They would be horrified to be asked to wash something else's coffee cup and would quit, file a lawsuit, and/or go tweet about the experience.

Having said that, I understand that for your cousin there were cultural issues behind his disgust at the very least. He is also getting a Master's level education, he's not just out of high school temping in an office. Having said that, he was still low on the totem pole, there to pay his dues, and the job is what it is. He has the right to say no, but they certainly can fire for that. If he didn't need the job or otherwise can find another one easily, that's his business.

Anonymous wrote:Your cousin was asked to wash some dishes ONCE. It was arguably related to his job because he is the department gopher. I understand it isn't in his job duties, but most jobs say "other duties as assigned" or similar language. I can understand if it became a daily thing, but he was out of line to make a big deal about being asked to do it once.

While I wouldn't generally ask an employee to wash dishes, I would be very annoyed at someone who made a huge deal out of any small task like that. I don't blame his boss for firing him.

Yeah, this. If you want to get high and mighty about what you will and won't do, I'd suggest that department gopher is a bad job to take.

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe how many people actually think it's APPROPRIATE to have a subordinate do their dishes. Really? In a professional office setting there's no way in hell it would be appropriate for someone to be asked to do dishes who wasn't in custodial services.

Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not seeing people saying it's appropriate or a good idea to have a subordinate do your dishes or other chores. I'm just seeing people saying it's not illegal, not grounds for going to HR, or that the person in question doesn't seem to have been singled out in any way.

I've worked white collar jobs my entire professional life, and I cannot imagine ever being asked to do someone's dishes at the office. I don't even think it's an appropriate request for one's assistant (unless it's a specifically *personal* assistant). It's just not done in a professional environment. Heck, I felt bad asking an intern once to go to another floor to find me some anti-burn ointment when I burned myself and had to run off to a meeting.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't think it is professional to ask anyone to do their dishes. It isn't an appropriate request. I was responding to a PP who suggested that it was extra egregious because it happened in higher ed, where these sins are somehow worse than anywhere else. They aren't, and that was one of my two points in that post.

Sorry for the confusion.

I can't believe how many people actually think it's APPROPRIATE to have a subordinate do their dishes. Really? In a professional office setting there's no way in hell it would be appropriate for someone to be asked to do dishes who wasn't in custodial services.

It's not illegal to ask someone to wash the dishes, or do something outside his job description, so I don't see the point of reporting this to HR. The only reason this would be grounds for reinstatement is if this particular employee were asked to wash the dishes on the basis of his race, national origin, gender, age, or disability.

And since the regular secretary washes dishes, that doesn't seem to be the case, does it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it would have been OK to ask the secretary to wash the dishes?

It seems that she does wash dishes, or her absence wouldn't have been mentioned.

OP might think it's an appropriate request to make of a secretary and might therefore think it's worth mentioning. I don't think it's ever an appropriate request to make unless the person is in food service or custodial services, or if the request is being made as a personal favor that the potential dishwasher is free to refuse.

To suggest that "that task is beneath me, but it's not beneath another employee" is a dangerous argument to make, and it seems to be the one OP is making.

I think "I don't have time to do that because of other demands on me" or "I don't know how to do that because it's not one of my responsibilities" covers most of the appropriate grounds for refusal.

Anonymous wrote:So it would have been OK to ask the secretary to wash the dishes?

It seems that she does wash dishes, or her absence wouldn't have been mentioned.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who said it isn't a big deal to do dishes. I work in higher ed. It really isn't any different than anywhere else. People who like to make drama are everywhere and as hard to get rid of elsewhere as in higher ed.

We don't know that the kid was fired for dishgate. We don't know what he was fired for and OP has not been generous with the details. This story doesn't add up.

I've worked white collar jobs my entire professional life, and I cannot imagine ever being asked to do someone's dishes at the office. I don't even think it's an appropriate request for one's assistant (unless it's a specifically *personal* assistant). It's just not done in a professional environment. Heck, I felt bad asking an intern once to go to another floor to find me some anti-burn ointment when I burned myself and had to run off to a meeting.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter that this person was Indian and that washing dishes is against his cultural/religious beliefs. It was an inappropriate request, regardless of the cultural/religious/whatever background of the person to whom this request was addressed. I can't imagine being asked to do my bosses dishes, nor would I ever dream of asking any of my direct reports to do that.

I'm the PP who said it isn't a big deal to do dishes. I work in higher ed. It really isn't any different than anywhere else. People who like to make drama are everywhere and as hard to get rid of elsewhere as in higher ed.

We don't know that the kid was fired for dishgate. We don't know what he was fired for and OP has not been generous with the details. This story doesn't add up.

Anonymous wrote:So I don't know where all of the rest of you work, but I'm the PP who works in higher ed., and this kid got FIRED basically for complaining about his boss doing something that was completely inappropriate. That's why it should be reported to HR--first, so this guy doesn't pull this shit with other employees, and second, to give the kid some chance to get reinstated.

I'm another PP who works in higher ed: there's just no reasonable circumstance I can imagine that would justify the boss asking the student to wash his dishes. For those PPs who are saying this isn't a big deal, I agree that in other contexts it isn't. In the context of higher ed, it is. It was a very strange and inappropriate request to make.