Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: the male hierarchy in the church are misogynists?

Great posts of late here - first knocking on the LDS religion, then Catholics. What religious group is next on the docket of DCUM hatred I wonder. Now go grab Bubba and go hoggin'

Actually, Mormons and Catholics seem to be the only targets for a small number of DCUMers. They leave all other religions alone. I wish Ratzinger would go away, he offends my feminist principles. But I wish the DCUM haters would go away, too, and I'm not talking about the concerned, self-identified Catholics who are posting here. Ironically, it's not rednecks who are doing the hateful bashing, it's people who think of themselves as sophisticated and thoughtful. But it seems everybody needs to make themselves feel good by hating somebody else....

- signed, neither Mormon or Catholic, but Disgusted

The dismissive tone is exactly what the Church gives off. Posters are expressing real concern -- many are Catholics themselves. And you get to wave a hand and pretend it is not legitimate by calling it DCUM hating.

And you totally failed to read the part where I said I'm NOT catholic. Posters like you convince me even more: some people are just knee-jerk haters who yesterday might have hated jews and blacks, but today they think it's OK - even kinda cool - to hate catholics.

This rebuke of the nuns is a big deal, even among the faithful. Don't pretend this topic is not legitimate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Worse, there are those of us who are heartbroken by what the church has done. My family has been Catholic for over 1,000 years. They gave me and my family so much. Do you have any idea how much pain I'm in that I can't be in the Church?

Did they rape, steal, pillage and enslave in the name of God to do it? I think they did.

NP here. Thanks for the history lesson, however you conveniently forgot just about every other religion, not to mention atheists like Stalin and Pol Pot. Let's return to the present, like the adults we are.

(I'm assuming you're an adult, although you could be ten!)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: the male hierarchy in the church are misogynists?

Great posts of late here - first knocking on the LDS religion, then Catholics. What religious group is next on the docket of DCUM hatred I wonder. Now go grab Bubba and go hoggin'

Actually, Mormons and Catholics seem to be the only targets for a small number of DCUMers. They leave all other religions alone. I wish Ratzinger would go away, he offends my feminist principles. But I wish the DCUM haters would go away, too, and I'm not talking about the concerned, self-identified Catholics who are posting here. Ironically, it's not rednecks who are doing the hateful bashing, it's people who think of themselves as sophisticated and thoughtful. But it seems everybody needs to make themselves feel good by hating somebody else....

- signed, neither Mormon or Catholic, but Disgusted

The dismissive tone is exactly what the Church gives off. Posters are expressing real concern -- many are Catholics themselves. And you get to wave a hand and pretend it is not legitimate by calling it DCUM hating.

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Sure, the church leadership is reprehensible.

But your broad brush of hatred includes the many concerned catholics who don't like their own leadership (some of whom are posting on this thread), and the wonderful nuns themselves. These people are part of the Catholic church too, but you ignore them completely.

Hatred and prejudice are broad brush problems. One symptom being a categorical refusal to understand nuance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Worse, there are those of us who are heartbroken by what the church has done. My family has been Catholic for over 1,000 years. They gave me and my family so much. Do you have any idea how much pain I'm in that I can't be in the Church?

Did they rape, steal, pillage and enslave in the name of God to do it? I think they did.

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Worse, there are those of us who are heartbroken by what the church has done. My family has been Catholic for over 1,000 years. They gave me and my family so much. Do you have any idea how much pain I'm in that I can't be in the Church?

If they drive out the nuns who will do all the actual work in the schools, hospitals and Catholic aid orgs?

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Sure, there're a lot of age-old "hates" in the world that would benefit from a closer look.

Yesterday I looked up the backgrounds of each of the bishops to be involved in the review and overseeing of "cleansed" policies etc.. I wanted to be fair in my assessment of possible mindsets, prejudices, lenses, presuppositions, assumptions etc.. Each and all of these men represent(s) or figurehead(s) some aspect of the primary programs of the USCCB. B. Paprocki is nationally noted as an exorcism expert; he's the go-to guy; he also was one of the first to close down his Catholic Charities' adoption program in dissent of present government funding rules. B. Blair (now "assistant" ) conducted the initial doctrinal assessment and delivering the present conclusions to B. Levada. B. Sartain, prettty new to Seattle, rattled his new diocese by trying for Catholics to as-a-bloc referendum on a law regarding same-sex unions.

In courts of justice & other bodies making policies in the USA we expect "interested persons" to recuse themselves in order to avoid impropriety in judgments and other end products. Not so here for sure! The more layers one peels from this "onion" the more one smells vindictiveness, self-interest, political maneuvering in an election year (the Head of CDF is also citizen of the USA) and various other modes of sexist chicanery.

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Hate is a strong word, but you hit the nail on the head. When so many people point out something is just not right with this religious organization, it's leaders and how they don't follow the word of God then yes, some of these die hards should take a second and try to understand where others are coming from.

When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Why do women work for lower wages when they make up more than 50% of college graduates and those with graduate degrees. We need to have wage equality laws.

The Catholic Church is just finding out what other denominations have learned: men won't work for those salaries. The Catholic model of the celibate priest worked when there were people for whom that was a good opportunity. College educated people now have many other options, so in the 80's, US priests came from Ireland, which had high unemployment, and today they come from Africa. Many parishes in the US share priests and much of the day to day work is done by female lay ministers and deacons (essentially married priests). The hierarchy can wail, but if the labor supply isn't there, they will have to give more duties to women. Market forces. The Church of England is going through the same thing with female priests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why oh why do women want to be part of a group that hates women? This is like those who secretly want to be part of the mainstream who hate and dehumanize them. Women need to form their own religion where they characterize the teachings of Jesus as having males inferior and subservient to females. See how many males will join that.

It's not a matter of *wanting* to be part of the group. I absolutely don't agree with much of what the Church is saying today, but renounce my Catholicism over it? No. The Church will change eventually, because its current level of misogyny is unsustainable for much longer in today's world.

Catholic here. Well, in name only at this point. I'm thoroughly disgusted and feeling more and more angered by what I used to call my Church every day. I'm not really sure what I am now. A once-Catholic, perhaps? Sadly, I wish the Church would change, too, and learn to be accepting and kind, but the truth is that it won't. It hasn't really changed (substantively) in thousands of years. It isn't going to change its stance on birth control, women, or any of the issues that have so many of us so angry and (quite frankly) hurt. I was taught that Jesus was/is loving and welcoming and I was taught about "casting the first stone" when I was little. Seems to me the Catholic Church could do with a review.