Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what works for us. For tantrums, I validate her feelings...

Sorry, but it's not working for you.

Please explain why. I feel like "the haters" have strong opinions that the "softer" parenting is not working, but not providing examples or advice on now to nip a tantrum in the bud for the kids who inherently challenge and push limits. Do you use spank? Take away more toys? How does that not lead to more anger and drama? At least in the short run, which is what we are talking about. In the long run, of course the child learns the parent means business and tantrums aren't worth it, but how do you teach the lesson to start. Especially for the more persistent, intense, emotional kids???

And what is wrong with empathetic approaches??

Anonymous wrote:Here's what works for us. For tantrums, I validate her feelings...

Sorry, but it's not working for you.

Ignore the haters. They simply don't have this type of kid. My first - easy peasy. My current three year old - watch out!

Very similar to OPs kid. Super independent. A 20 minute tantrum when denied ice cream for breakfast, tells me I'm not her mom and she doesn't love me.

Here's what works for us.

For tantrums, I validate her feelings (I understand that you want ice cream for breakfast and you are very mad that we arent going to have any.), reinforce the "No" message (maybe we'll have some ice cream later but not now), tell her that her screaming hurts my ears so I'm leaving the room, and then wait for the clue that the tantrum is over (crying out for mom/dad). Then, I comfort and snuggle her.

When she says she doesn't love me, I tell her that's OK - I love her all the way to [the sun/moon/park,etc..] and go back, and I will always love her. This usually makes her very angry, but I want her to know that I unconditionally love her, no matter what she says.

Lastly - we just learned from a Today show special that all tantrums end the same way. Crying out for mom or dad. I had no idea! It has helped us immensely since the tantrums last for varying time periods. Previously, we would intervene too early and make things worse.

Anonymous wrote:try more hugs...it did wonders for our 3 year old!

Are you sh*tting me?

Anonymous wrote:My son did this, too, off and on through 3 and into 4. When I mentioned it to his preschool teachers and asked for insight they were flabbergasted because he is so obedient 100% of the time for them...and was for us 85% of the time, too. But that 15%! Whew. Yes, consistency helps a lot.

But. My kid was (and still is) just amped up by punishment and "just do it or else" stuff. It just makes it so much worse. Turns a momentary flare into a 2 hour ordeal. And really, this "it wouldn't be allowed in my house" would have no natural end in my house - my kid is ready to take your time out and raise you a kicking fit. Send him to his room and he will tear it apart. Doing that (all of which I have done, BTW, until I learned it didn't work to get the best behavior out of him) ended up with physical restraint to assert my control over him. It was the only thing that did work to assert my control. And I realized I shouldn't be fighting to control my kid. I should be teaching him to control HIMSELF. And since that other stuff didn't do that - he lost control, instead - I've used other methods now. I set him up to maintain his control, steer him when he begins to lose it, and when he very rarely now does lose control help him make it quick by giving him my understanding.Would it work for every kid? I'm sure not. But it works for my high strung kid, and I hear everyday from teachers, coaches and friends what a good kid he is, so don't knock it.

21:20 here. What you wrote is helpful. I'd love to hear more details on what you're doing that's working. Examples, language etc.

Anonymous wrote:Let me get this straight. (1) Only your advice is helpful, out of every poster on DCUM; (2) Because OP was not stating that her child was abnormal, it was wrong for all of us to assure her that her child was normal; and (3) Every child but yours is a brat.

Nonsense.

1) There were several not-unhelpful posters on this particular topic (you guessed it - the ones who "blamed" the OP etc) - and though my particular advice might not have been helpful, at least it wasn't making it harder for OP to change her attitude.
2) Yes, it was essentially wrong to say that the child was normal, because, though technically true, it is not only irrelevant but shifts emphasis in a very undesirable direction
3) There are many many well behaved children, but their parents in general do not believe in touchy-feely drivel one reads here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Throwing example: I got her a bike helmet today and it wasn't what she wanted so she threw it across the car.

Tantrum example: She wanted a snack yesterday but I told her no because I was fixing dinner. She had a 10 minute screaming tantrum over it while having a playdate (I took her to her room).

I get so embarrassed when she is like this.

-OP

I would let her know that I was returning helmet to store and put bike in the attic. Three is a bit young to ride a bike but whatever it is give that she needed the helmet for would be put away for awhile.

As for the snack, I might give in on that as hunger can make kids throw some god-awful tantrums.

Huh? My cousin was riding a two wheeled bike by age 3. But I agree, tell your DD that helmet is going back to the store and bike is being put away until she can behave appropriately.

As for snack, my 4yo consistently gets hungry around 5pm right when I start making dinner so I usually let her have a very small snack - 5 cashews, a cracker, a piece of cheese, etc. and she's usually okay with that.

Discipline is not the same as punishment.

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry, but at no point did OP express concern that her child was not normal in a psychiatric sense or that she is thinking about having her psychologically evaluated. She diagnosed her problem perfectly well - her child is a brat (i.e. obnoxious, disobedient child) and she doesn't like it. And we can be pretty sure that most of the children of supportive posters are not that different because the rest of us see it every day with their "honeying" of every small request, praising of every minuscule accomplishment and endless explanations and discussions ("but how would you like it if somebody hit you in the face?) So advice coming from those people is worse than useless - it's harmful. OP was at least honest in her initial post.

Let me get this straight. (1) Only your advice is helpful, out of every poster on DCUM; (2) Because OP was not stating that her child was abnormal, it was wrong for all of us to assure her that her child was normal; and (3) Every child but yours is a brat.

I am sorry, but at no point did OP express concern that her child was not normal in a psychiatric sense or that she is thinking about having her psychologically evaluated. She diagnosed her problem perfectly well - her child is a brat (i.e. obnoxious, disobedient child) and she doesn't like it. And we can be pretty sure that most of the children of supportive posters are not that different because the rest of us see it every day with their "honeying" of every small request, praising of every minuscule accomplishment and endless explanations and discussions ("but how would you like it if somebody hit you in the face?) So advice coming from those people is worse than useless - it's harmful. OP was at least honest in her initial post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's strange that the "blaming" posters have no constructive criticism other than, perhaps, telling OP to build a time machine and start over again.

Even so, it still beats "it's perfectly normal" nonsense.

And the advice is not what she wants to hear - which is that she needs to introduce that little thing called punishment. Instead, it's all about talking, explaining, proposing, discussing, like she and her child are equal partners, rather than a parent and a child. Parent must have authority i.e. ability to have children do as he said because he said so. Not because he explained it well, or because it makes sense, but because he is the parent and his decisions are final. Otherwise it will be hell.

I haven't heard a single poster simply saying "It's perfectly normal" and signing off and leaving it at that. You are distorting what you are reading, and distorting it deliberately. As has been stated before, people are saying this behavior is developmentally normal, as opposed to some sort of aberrant behavior that signals a developmental problem that OP should seek professional advice for. That's different from saying, "Oh, it's normal, just forget about it and don't even do anything about it" which is what you're trying to pretend people are saying. The "it's normal" posters have also been giving constructive advice for dealing with the behavior, which is much more than what I can say for you -- telling someone they must have authority is not constructive. It doesn't guide or teach how to have authority.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's strange that the "blaming" posters have no constructive criticism other than, perhaps, telling OP to build a time machine and start over again.

Even so, it still beats "it's perfectly normal" nonsense.

And the advice is not what she wants to hear - which is that she needs to introduce that little thing called punishment. Instead, it's all about talking, explaining, proposing, discussing, like she and her child are equal partners, rather than a parent and a child. Parent must have authority i.e. ability to have children do as he said because he said so. Not because he explained it well, or because it makes sense, but because he is the parent and his decisions are final. Otherwise it will be hell.

Hell on who? I'd wager it would be more hell for the parent. I was once a spirited kid with a mom who tried all kinds of things to control me and we were constantly at odds. Being locked in my room, spanked, losing privileges. I fought it all because that is just what my nature was dont know why. It was hell, but it was hell for everyone until I moved out. It sucked.

I really liked what the pp who said that it's about teaching your child to control themselves rather than learning how to control them. I'm sure my 20 month old will challenge me in a couple years and I plan of taking that approach.

Maybe some parents are super soft but I was not and, believe me, some kids don't do well with punishment. At least not the type of punishment most of us think about (or the type most kids would respond to). We are not telling the OP to just sit and wait for it to pass. We are telling her not to be discouraged because there are other similar kids out there. In my case, the more punishment, the worse the situation got. Realizing that I was not alone, reading about it, and learning from others who had figured out ways to deal with kids like mine really helped.

Just blaming the OP does not help her, or her kid, at all.

Anonymous wrote:It's strange that the "blaming" posters have no constructive criticism other than, perhaps, telling OP to build a time machine and start over again.

Even so, it still beats "it's perfectly normal" nonsense.

And the advice is not what she wants to hear - which is that she needs to introduce that little thing called punishment. Instead, it's all about talking, explaining, proposing, discussing, like she and her child are equal partners, rather than a parent and a child. Parent must have authority i.e. ability to have children do as he said because he said so. Not because he explained it well, or because it makes sense, but because he is the parent and his decisions are final. Otherwise it will be hell.

Anonymous wrote:It's strange that the "blaming" posters have no constructive criticism other than, perhaps, telling OP to build a time machine and start over again.

3 is not to late but you have to be tougher. We are tired of people blaming the age. Its not the age