Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 13:38     Subject: Re:What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:I suspect there is an issue of "my struggle is bigger than your struggle" going on here, especially when people are adamant about separating gay and race issues.


Nope. I'm adamant about separating the issues not because I think "my struggle is bigger than your struggle" (especially since I belong to both groups), but because they are not the same thing.
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 13:31     Subject: Re:What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:OP from the "anti-LBGT" rights thread. To the OP of this thread. It is perfectly clear that I was not spewing any sort of hatred/"gaytred". I reject your accusation and I don't find it helpful in articulating your position. I am a thoughtful, caring person. I care about people's feelings. My intent is to check my thoughts/ideas about this important issue for my and my kids' sake. Self examination is important to me.

Btw, for all the bad-mouthing that happens about DCUM, there is plenty of good that comes from discussions like this.


Thoughtful, caring people don't secretly condemn their best friends and keep them in the dark about what they really think of them. I get that you THINK you're not spewing any of sort of hatred, but of course you are when you refer to yourself as anti-insert what you're against. To be against it means you put yourself above it, judge it, and condemn it. This of your best friend. Excuse us if we don't think you're necessarily a good person.
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:47     Subject: What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Have you ever heard of gay bashing? Or of Matthew Shepherd? No one is denying the atrocity of slavery and Jim Crow, and its unique and appalling place in American history. I'm just saying, let's learn from history.


I was just about to write nearly the same thing. Of course, sexual and racial discrimination are different. Race in America has a unique history and race is normally something that can be determined visually. The impact of these factors can't be ignored. But, there is probably more in common then many posters seem to realize. Matthew Shepherd is one example of a gay man being lynched, but far from the only one. Shaw Middle School's Assistant Principal was targeted due to his sexual orientation. A number of transgendered people have been killed in DC in past months. Gay clubs have been burned down or attacked in other ways. Violent hostility is something that both the gay and civil rights movements have in common.


Not to mention the many many kids who commit suicide everyday because of being bullied at school for being gay, effeminate or whatever. The ones who turn to drugs, the ones who cut, all in an effort to soothe their oppression should not be discounted either.


Is this to excuse the murders during the civil rights era? Prior to the civil rights area? The KKK? I do not see how one movement is greater based on what you are saying.


That's exactly the point pp, no one movement is greater, they are just different. Struggles are relative.


Agreed.....so why the incessant need to compare them?
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:45     Subject: Re:What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:I suspect there is an issue of "my struggle is bigger than your struggle" going on here, especially when people are adamant about separating gay and race issues.


No, it's more a matter of "The struggles of Blacks in this country date back HUNDREDS of years. Blacks were disciminated against up until the 1960's....and still experience discrimination today. Blacks were enslaved for hundreds of years, raped, separated from family, treated as property, whipped, beaten, lynched, murdered, maimed, and made to feel less than for HUNDREDS of years".

To then turn around and equate this with gays' right to marriage is a HUGE insult.

If the gay rights struggle/movement is an important issue, there is NO NEED to latch onto the Blacks Civil Rights Movement. Does this indicate that without it, the argument is very weak?
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:41     Subject: What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why is race being brought into sexuality? Why can't these be separated?


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


Why do they need to be?


You seriously have to ask this?

If we're talking about Jewish people, should we bring up the disabled?
jsteele
Post 03/02/2012 12:40     Subject: What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:
Is this to excuse the murders during the civil rights era? Prior to the civil rights area? The KKK? I do not see how one movement is greater based on what you are saying.


Nobody said anything about excusing. I really hate the "Victimization Olympics" in which some like to engage. Pointing out comparisons is just pointing out comparisons. Nothing more.

If a 19 year old gay black male walks into a store, the store owner may regard him with suspicion not accorded to a 19 year old gay white male. That is discrimination based on race. If the same 19 year old gay black male is jumped leaving a gay bar, that is discrimination based on sexual orientation. I am not sure that this hypothetical person cares which type of discrimination is worse. He would probably just hate being discriminated against.

Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:39     Subject: Re:What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
OP from the "anti-LBGT" rights thread. To the OP of this thread. It is perfectly clear that I was not spewing any sort of hatred/"gaytred". I reject your accusation and I don't find it helpful in articulating your position. I am a thoughtful, caring person. I care about people's feelings. My intent is to check my thoughts/ideas about this important issue for my and my kids' sake. Self examination is important to me.

Btw, for all the bad-mouthing that happens about DCUM, there is plenty of good that comes from discussions like this.
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:35     Subject: What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:Anyone who bristles when the gay rights movement is compared to the civil rights movement is homophobic, pure and simple.

And if you bristle at being called homophobic, then reconsider why you have so much trouble accepting gay rights.


I think this is right. People are trying to deny any comparisons because it is now pretty clear to the large majority of people that denying rights to blacks is wrong. Drawing the obvious comparison would lead to an obvious conclusion that denying basic rights to homosexuals is wrong.
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:30     Subject: What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Have you ever heard of gay bashing? Or of Matthew Shepherd? No one is denying the atrocity of slavery and Jim Crow, and its unique and appalling place in American history. I'm just saying, let's learn from history.


I was just about to write nearly the same thing. Of course, sexual and racial discrimination are different. Race in America has a unique history and race is normally something that can be determined visually. The impact of these factors can't be ignored. But, there is probably more in common then many posters seem to realize. Matthew Shepherd is one example of a gay man being lynched, but far from the only one. Shaw Middle School's Assistant Principal was targeted due to his sexual orientation. A number of transgendered people have been killed in DC in past months. Gay clubs have been burned down or attacked in other ways. Violent hostility is something that both the gay and civil rights movements have in common.


Not to mention the many many kids who commit suicide everyday because of being bullied at school for being gay, effeminate or whatever. The ones who turn to drugs, the ones who cut, all in an effort to soothe their oppression should not be discounted either.


Is this to excuse the murders during the civil rights era? Prior to the civil rights area? The KKK? I do not see how one movement is greater based on what you are saying.


That's exactly the point pp, no one movement is greater, they are just different. Struggles are relative.
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:29     Subject: What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anyone who bristles when the gay rights movement is compared to the civil rights movement is homophobic, pure and simple.

And if you bristle at being called homophobic, then reconsider why you have so much trouble accepting gay rights.
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:29     Subject: Re:What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Frankly, when people try to distance the anti-racism movement from the anti-homophobia movement, it seems to boil down to (a) "I want the prize for Most Oppressed!" or (b) squeamishness about having the anti-racism movement besmirched by The Gays. Both of which are...depressing, to say the least.


PP here -- and I say that as a Jew! So my "Most Oppressed" crown is pretty shiny


oh no you don't , your ancestors were oppressed, you're leisurely posting on DCUM on a friday afternoon, so nope, you can't claim the crown.
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:22     Subject: What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Have you ever heard of gay bashing? Or of Matthew Shepherd? No one is denying the atrocity of slavery and Jim Crow, and its unique and appalling place in American history. I'm just saying, let's learn from history.


I was just about to write nearly the same thing. Of course, sexual and racial discrimination are different. Race in America has a unique history and race is normally something that can be determined visually. The impact of these factors can't be ignored. But, there is probably more in common then many posters seem to realize. Matthew Shepherd is one example of a gay man being lynched, but far from the only one. Shaw Middle School's Assistant Principal was targeted due to his sexual orientation. A number of transgendered people have been killed in DC in past months. Gay clubs have been burned down or attacked in other ways. Violent hostility is something that both the gay and civil rights movements have in common.


Not to mention the many many kids who commit suicide everyday because of being bullied at school for being gay, effeminate or whatever. The ones who turn to drugs, the ones who cut, all in an effort to soothe their oppression should not be discounted either.


Is this to excuse the murders during the civil rights era? Prior to the civil rights area? The KKK? I do not see how one movement is greater based on what you are saying.
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:14     Subject: Re:What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Anonymous wrote:Frankly, when people try to distance the anti-racism movement from the anti-homophobia movement, it seems to boil down to (a) "I want the prize for Most Oppressed!" or (b) squeamishness about having the anti-racism movement besmirched by The Gays. Both of which are...depressing, to say the least.


PP here -- and I say that as a Jew! So my "Most Oppressed" crown is pretty shiny
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:13     Subject: Re:What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
Frankly, when people try to distance the anti-racism movement from the anti-homophobia movement, it seems to boil down to (a) "I want the prize for Most Oppressed!" or (b) squeamishness about having the anti-racism movement besmirched by The Gays. Both of which are...depressing, to say the least.
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2012 12:04     Subject: What's with all the "gaytred" in the past couple of days?
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Have you ever heard of gay bashing? Or of Matthew Shepherd? No one is denying the atrocity of slavery and Jim Crow, and its unique and appalling place in American history. I'm just saying, let's learn from history.


I was just about to write nearly the same thing. Of course, sexual and racial discrimination are different. Race in America has a unique history and race is normally something that can be determined visually. The impact of these factors can't be ignored. But, there is probably more in common then many posters seem to realize. Matthew Shepherd is one example of a gay man being lynched, but far from the only one. Shaw Middle School's Assistant Principal was targeted due to his sexual orientation. A number of transgendered people have been killed in DC in past months. Gay clubs have been burned down or attacked in other ways. Violent hostility is something that both the gay and civil rights movements have in common.


Not to mention the many many kids who commit suicide everyday because of being bullied at school for being gay, effeminate or whatever. The ones who turn to drugs, the ones who cut, all in an effort to soothe their oppression should not be discounted either.