Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Until you walk in my shoes, you really don't understand."


This. I also had to end my very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. Later-term abortions make up a very small percentage of abortions performed, and they are not performed for "convenience." Pregnancy isn't always sunshine and rainbows - tragic situations can and do occur and heatrbreaking choices sometimes have to be made. These choices are between a woman, her family, her medical team, and God - they are no one else's business. I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy. I will be forever grateful for the compassionate and skilled doctors and nurses who helped me.

You put that very well. I also had to have an abortion at 20 weeks of a very much wanted pregnancy (IVF) because my baby had a fatal condition, detected at the 20 week ultrasound. It was unlikely he'd survive to term, and even if he did, impossible that he'd live for more than a few minutes after birth. As the PP said, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I have no idea what the statistics are, but I have to imagine that many, if not most abortions performed around that time in a pregnancy are for similar reasons.

I'm so sorry for your loss - all of you. Any of us could be faced with the same circumstances and I, for one, feel grateful that we are enabled to choose.

What if a diagnosis was missed prenatally, and discovered at birth? Would you give your newborn a lethal injection to the heart then? Or is it only compassionate when your child is still inside your body?

Well, in my case at least, my son would have died almost immediately, if he even made it to term. So I really don't understand the point of your question, other than to be inflamatory.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when Obama was one of the only members to vote against the bill which would mandate giving babies born alive after an abortion proper medical care?

Happened at Christ Hospital in IL.

He was one of the only members to vote against it.

You are misrepresenting Obama's position here. While Obama was in the Illinois Senate, he voted against a a bill that would give aborted fetuses that showed signs of life full legal protections even if doctors believed they could not survive. Obama's vote was in committee and the bill was defeated in that committee. However, Obama's position was not in support of withholding medical care in such circumstances. Rather, the bill would have impacted the legality of abortions in Illinois. Indeed, the bill was later amended to make clear that it would not affect the legality of abortion and was passed into law. Obama was not in the Illinois Senate at that time, but says he would have supported it.

Your claim that Obama was "one of the only members to vote against it" is disputable. Obama was in the majority, otherwise the bill would have passed. So, he certainly was not one of the only members of the committee.

I found a more thorough and factual compilation of Obama's position here:

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/obama-and-infanticide/

Where are the discrepancies? That article says the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Until you walk in my shoes, you really don't understand."


This. I also had to end my very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. Later-term abortions make up a very small percentage of abortions performed, and they are not performed for "convenience." Pregnancy isn't always sunshine and rainbows - tragic situations can and do occur and heatrbreaking choices sometimes have to be made. These choices are between a woman, her family, her medical team, and God - they are no one else's business. I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy. I will be forever grateful for the compassionate and skilled doctors and nurses who helped me.

You put that very well. I also had to have an abortion at 20 weeks of a very much wanted pregnancy (IVF) because my baby had a fatal condition, detected at the 20 week ultrasound. It was unlikely he'd survive to term, and even if he did, impossible that he'd live for more than a few minutes after birth. As the PP said, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I have no idea what the statistics are, but I have to imagine that many, if not most abortions performed around that time in a pregnancy are for similar reasons.

I'm so sorry for your loss - all of you. Any of us could be faced with the same circumstances and I, for one, feel grateful that we are enabled to choose.

What if a diagnosis was missed prenatally, and discovered at birth? Would you give your newborn a lethal injection to the heart then? Or is it only compassionate when your child is still inside your body?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a relative who works in a NICU. She said she could never make sense of the fact that they would be spending tens -- if not hundreds -- of thousands of dollars keeping pre-term babies alive in one end of the hospital, while they were aborting babies of the same gestational age in the other end.

This is really laughably ignorant, considering the number of second trimester abortions in this country is tiny and not usually performed in a hospital unless there's a medical necessity to save the mother's life. Maybe she's delusional?

Or the poster is lying.

The Born Alive Infants Protection Act was passed and signed into federal law based on the evidence and testimony of many nurses in hospitals across the country who witnessed abortions performed in hospitals on viable or possibly viable infants who were left to die. Some testified that they would hold and rock the little babies until they died.

I am tired of people saying "you're lying" or "that could never happen" because the truth is unpleasant or not often openly discussed because of an agenda.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Until you walk in my shoes, you really don't understand."


This. I also had to end my very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. Later-term abortions make up a very small percentage of abortions performed, and they are not performed for "convenience." Pregnancy isn't always sunshine and rainbows - tragic situations can and do occur and heatrbreaking choices sometimes have to be made. These choices are between a woman, her family, her medical team, and God - they are no one else's business. I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy. I will be forever grateful for the compassionate and skilled doctors and nurses who helped me.

You put that very well. I also had to have an abortion at 20 weeks of a very much wanted pregnancy (IVF) because my baby had a fatal condition, detected at the 20 week ultrasound. It was unlikely he'd survive to term, and even if he did, impossible that he'd live for more than a few minutes after birth. As the PP said, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I have no idea what the statistics are, but I have to imagine that many, if not most abortions performed around that time in a pregnancy are for similar reasons.

I'm so sorry for your loss - all of you. Any of us could be faced with the same circumstances and I, for one, feel grateful that we are enabled to choose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a relative who works in a NICU. She said she could never make sense of the fact that they would be spending tens -- if not hundreds -- of thousands of dollars keeping pre-term babies alive in one end of the hospital, while they were aborting babies of the same gestational age in the other end.

This is really laughably ignorant, considering the number of second trimester abortions in this country is tiny and not usually performed in a hospital unless there's a medical necessity to save the mother's life. Maybe she's delusional?

Or the poster is lying.

Anonymous wrote:If you feel bad, why not start a group to adopt unwanted babies? If you can guarantee adoption for unwanted babies, I'm sure they'll be less abortions.

But I think we all know that won't happen. People harp about saving babies, but nobody wants to take care of them after "saving" them.

And for people who claim to be "pro-life" and illegalize abortions... What are you going to do with the women who want to get an abortion? Throw them in jail? Fine them? (most of them are poor women).

Best solution is to keep it legal, offer counseling to avoid it, and every effort to support the mother during and after (if she changes her mind) birth (through childcare, food, education).

If America offered free childcare, birth control, and reproductive education to every women AND MEN, we could eliminate abortions that's not needed due to medical reasons.

I'm the OP and I'll assume you're talking to me since you didn't quote anybody in your post.

As I said before I'm not against choice. I just wish people had a heart. That's all. How come they take the fetus out of the woman's body if there's the possibility that child will suffer? How does such abortion happens? Do they kill the child before they take them out or not? The child was ALIVE for several hours!!! COLD, HUNGRY IN PAIN! Can you read?

This is not about choice or unwanted children. It's about the procedure itself.

I am pro-choice, but this story is disturbing. Seems like the negligence of the medical personnel failing to check for the vital signs of the fetus after the induction of birth. I thought with our technological advances we’ve come past the barbaric infanticide habits, but apparently we are still not that far from our ancestors that used to leave the deformed newborns to die, or bash their skulls against the rock.

Anonymous wrote:"Until you walk in my shoes, you really don't understand."


This. I also had to end my very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. Later-term abortions make up a very small percentage of abortions performed, and they are not performed for "convenience." Pregnancy isn't always sunshine and rainbows - tragic situations can and do occur and heatrbreaking choices sometimes have to be made. These choices are between a woman, her family, her medical team, and God - they are no one else's business. I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy. I will be forever grateful for the compassionate and skilled doctors and nurses who helped me.

You put that very well. I also had to have an abortion at 20 weeks of a very much wanted pregnancy (IVF) because my baby had a fatal condition, detected at the 20 week ultrasound. It was unlikely he'd survive to term, and even if he did, impossible that he'd live for more than a few minutes after birth. As the PP said, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I have no idea what the statistics are, but I have to imagine that many, if not most abortions performed around that time in a pregnancy are for similar reasons.

Horrible. But it is wrong to generalize this to Tge entire abortion debate. My stomach turns every time a mother puts a baby in a microwave or a father puts out his cigarette on a child. But clearly one can't generalize about that either.

Anonymous wrote:This baby was aborted due to genetic problems. Not saying I would do the same, but isn't that they ONLY reason you are allowed to have a late term abortion? The article doesn't go into detail about the problems with the fetus but it may not have survived anyway. Some people would rather not continue a pregnancy if it meant carrying the baby to term, giving birth and then having the baby die three days later.

No, a woman can legally have an abortion up to birth.

Under the Roe framework, combined with Doe, states may put limitations on abortion according to a trimester framework. But abortion may be obtained to protect a woman's "health" at any time, and this includes physical and mental health.

Of course, most women do not desire to end their baby's life in the third trimester. But women are legally permitted to do so, and some do. Late-term, post-viability abortions happen; the exact numbers are unknowable, but even the most fervent supporters of abortion concede at least 1% of the 1 million+ abortions a year are post-viability. England, which has much more accurate reporting, has significant numbers of late-term abortions (and high rates of babies born alive after them):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-512129/66-babies-year-left-die-NHS-abortions-wrong.html

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23393315-one-baby-in-30-left-alive-after-medical-termination.do


The trials against late-terms abortionists in Philadelphia and Maryland include discoveries of corpses labeled 32 weeks and 36 weeks.

Anonymous wrote:"Until you walk in my shoes, you really don't understand."


This. I also had to end my very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. Later-term abortions make up a very small percentage of abortions performed, and they are not performed for "convenience." Pregnancy isn't always sunshine and rainbows - tragic situations can and do occur and heatrbreaking choices sometimes have to be made. These choices are between a woman, her family, her medical team, and God - they are no one else's business. I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy. I will be forever grateful for the compassionate and skilled doctors and nurses who helped me.

Both of your posts made me cry. I am so sorry for your losses.

I would hope that no one would question your right to end your pregnancy in these circumstances. What bothers me, even as a pro-choice person, is when people talk about these babies as not being human. I had an early miscarriage of a very wanted pregnancy (I know that pales next to what you went through) and I grieved for the loss of that child. Anyone who tries to tell me that wasn't my child, it was just tissue, is just wrong.

Anonymous wrote:"Until you walk in my shoes, you really don't understand."


This. I also had to end my very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. Later-term abortions make up a very small percentage of abortions performed, and they are not performed for "convenience." Pregnancy isn't always sunshine and rainbows - tragic situations can and do occur and heatrbreaking choices sometimes have to be made. These choices are between a woman, her family, her medical team, and God - they are no one else's business. I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy. I will be forever grateful for the compassionate and skilled doctors and nurses who helped me.

I'm sorry for your loss, PP.

For the record, I'm pro-choice since I know that life isn't always black and white. Having an abortion is a heart-wrenching decision (at least, for those who have a heart), but there are circumstances when it might be necessary.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when Obama was one of the only members to vote against the bill which would mandate giving babies born alive after an abortion proper medical care?

Happened at Christ Hospital in IL.

He was one of the only members to vote against it.

You are misrepresenting Obama's position here. While Obama was in the Illinois Senate, he voted against a a bill that would give aborted fetuses that showed signs of life full legal protections even if doctors believed they could not survive. Obama's vote was in committee and the bill was defeated in that committee. However, Obama's position was not in support of withholding medical care in such circumstances. Rather, the bill would have impacted the legality of abortions in Illinois. Indeed, the bill was later amended to make clear that it would not affect the legality of abortion and was passed into law. Obama was not in the Illinois Senate at that time, but says he would have supported it.

Your claim that Obama was "one of the only members to vote against it" is disputable. Obama was in the majority, otherwise the bill would have passed. So, he certainly was not one of the only members of the committee.

I found a more thorough and factual compilation of Obama's position here:

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/obama-and-infanticide/

Anonymous wrote:"Until you walk in my shoes, you really don't understand."


This. I also had to end my very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. Later-term abortions make up a very small percentage of abortions performed, and they are not performed for "convenience." Pregnancy isn't always sunshine and rainbows - tragic situations can and do occur and heatrbreaking choices sometimes have to be made. These choices are between a woman, her family, her medical team, and God - they are no one else's business. I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy. I will be forever grateful for the compassionate and skilled doctors and nurses who helped me.

I feel for both of you PPs. So sorry you both had to go through this.