Anonymous wrote:My in laws all live in the deep south. I am not a southern myself and am baffled by it all as well. They do NOT talk about it with me. Every once in a while there will be a slip where someone expresses bitterness about being judged harshly by the world, that the rest of the world is equally racist or even more racist.

One thing that was new to me when I first met them was that they all have "help" cleaning their houses and "sitters" staying with the elderly. And the help and the sitters are always black women who go by Miss Winnie or Miss Whatever, no matter how old they are. And no one talks about it or acknowledges that they are there. We just go about our conversations and use the house as if these servants were part of the plumbing in the house. It makes me feel uncomfortable. I guess it's something like Downton Abbey.

Well, how many of DCUM households use hispanic cleaning women? A bunch of us, I'm sure. How many office buildings in DC use hispanic cleaning women? Cultural phenomena sure are interesting.

A side point: most family friends/employees get called "Miss" + first name in the south. Cleaners, babysitters, school teachers, neighbors, the mom of your kids friends, etc. etc. "Mrs." + last name is reserved for people you don't know or formal situations. It's very uncommon to simply use a woman's first name, unless you are talking about two women who are good friends addressing each other directly in an informal setting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what, OP. People concentrate on the South, but racism is and was everywhere in the US. Check out the book Sundown Towns -- which is the history of towns in the United States in which African Americans were lynched or refused admission after sundown. NINETY PERCENT of them were in the north. Indiana, Illinois, Ohio. Yup. People like to believe that racism was a southern phenomenon, but most Southern towns were integrated.

Of course, and yet...the Great Migration that took place was from the Deep South to the North. So the existence of outlier cases, while interesting, doesn't change the fact that blacks moved north because of a universal, totalitarian racist legal framework that existed in the South that had no counterpart in the North.

The Great Migration was from the Deep South to large cities in the North. African Americans could not move to small towns in the North. Only to large cities like Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia. They were still barred from small towns...because of that "totalitarian racist legal framework" that also existed in the north. You might want to read Sundown Towns, or at least check out the website.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what, OP. People concentrate on the South, but racism is and was everywhere in the US. Check out the book Sundown Towns -- which is the history of towns in the United States in which African Americans were lynched or refused admission after sundown. NINETY PERCENT of them were in the north. Indiana, Illinois, Ohio. Yup. People like to believe that racism was a southern phenomenon, but most Southern towns were integrated.

Of course, and yet...the Great Migration that took place was from the Deep South to the North. So the existence of outlier cases, while interesting, doesn't change the fact that blacks moved north because of a universal, totalitarian racist legal framework that existed in the South that had no counterpart in the North.

Don't stop there. Afterwards, they unfortunately found themselves not in a "promised land" of racial equality but in a Northern universal, totalitarian racist place with nowhere left to go. Lose the wool from your eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem

Educate yourself. Seriously.

Anonymous wrote:I'm watching the excellent documentary Freedom Riders on WETA. It's about the civil rights movement of the 1960s and the group of young people (black and white) who attempted to desegregate interstate bus travel. At each stop, they were brutally beaten and terrorized by white racists in the Deep South. Have you ever wondered why these people (southern whites) were so vitriolic and hateful? Have you ever wanted to talk to a person (now) who participated in the violence back then about WHY they were like that? Have you ever wanted to TRY to understand why they were so brutal and vicious and full of hate?

Needless to say this film is really getting to me. I can't stop tearing up while I watch it. I just don't get it. I'm so glad I wasn't alive back then. Sorry for the rambling.

My family moved from Atlanta, GA to Philadelphia, PA in the late 70's and I was shocked and surprised at the deep and entrenched racism in the City of Brotherly Love. Why were the people all over the country still racist at that time? I have relatives in GA and AL and when I have gone back for visits, there is far less racism there than the racism in this area.

My in laws all live in the deep south. I am not a southern myself and am baffled by it all as well. They do NOT talk about it with me. Every once in a while there will be a slip where someone expresses bitterness about being judged harshly by the world, that the rest of the world is equally racist or even more racist.

One thing that was new to me when I first met them was that they all have "help" cleaning their houses and "sitters" staying with the elderly. And the help and the sitters are always black women who go by Miss Winnie or Miss Whatever, no matter how old they are. And no one talks about it or acknowledges that they are there. We just go about our conversations and use the house as if these servants were part of the plumbing in the house. It makes me feel uncomfortable. I guess it's something like Downton Abbey.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what, OP. People concentrate on the South, but racism is and was everywhere in the US. Check out the book Sundown Towns -- which is the history of towns in the United States in which African Americans were lynched or refused admission after sundown. NINETY PERCENT of them were in the north. Indiana, Illinois, Ohio. Yup. People like to believe that racism was a southern phenomenon, but most Southern towns were integrated.

Of course, and yet...the Great Migration that took place was from the Deep South to the North. So the existence of outlier cases, while interesting, doesn't change the fact that blacks moved north because of a universal, totalitarian racist legal framework that existed in the South that had no counterpart in the North.

Don't stop there. Afterwards, they unfortunately found themselves not in a "promised land" of racial equality but in a Northern universal, totalitarian racist place with nowhere left to go. Lose the wool from your eyes.

Anonymous wrote:You know what, OP. People concentrate on the South, but racism is and was everywhere in the US. Check out the book Sundown Towns -- which is the history of towns in the United States in which African Americans were lynched or refused admission after sundown. NINETY PERCENT of them were in the north. Indiana, Illinois, Ohio. Yup. People like to believe that racism was a southern phenomenon, but most Southern towns were integrated.

Of course, and yet...the Great Migration that took place was from the Deep South to the North. So the existence of outlier cases, while interesting, doesn't change the fact that blacks moved north because of a universal, totalitarian racist legal framework that existed in the South that had no counterpart in the North.

My parents (66) still talk about glen echo being segregated. I think pools in the area were too, maybe it was de facto segregation. My grandparents made them go to the "black pools" though, even though they were southern, they grew up very poor, and were against racism.

Anonymous wrote:The film you are watching sounds very grim. While I do believe that it was not a pleasant time, I would also question the accuracy of the movie.
Something dramatized for tv does not mean it is accurately describing the time.

Holocaust deniers say the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:I'm watching the excellent documentary Freedom Riders on WETA. It's about the civil rights movement of the 1960s and the group of young people (black and white) who attempted to desegregate interstate bus travel. At each stop, they were brutally beaten and terrorized by white racists in the Deep South. Have you ever wondered why these people (southern whites) were so vitriolic and hateful? Have you ever wanted to talk to a person (now) who participated in the violence back then about WHY they were like that? Have you ever wanted to TRY to understand why they were so brutal and vicious and full of hate?

Needless to say this film is really getting to me. I can't stop tearing up while I watch it. I just don't get it. I'm so glad I wasn't alive back then. Sorry for the rambling.

Watch this scene from Roger Corman's The Intruder made in 1962--Not that different from 2012 wrt abortion rights, civil rights, etc, scary. Yeah, that's William Shatner:

Anonymous wrote:And let's not forget that other racial minorities (other than AA) also suffered lots of racism too, from both AA and Caucasians.

I would say that no other racial minority has faced racism to the same degree. You are overlooking the slavery that AA faced that other minority groups did not in the US. That coupled with the later racism already mentioned in this thread.

Anonymous wrote:Racism was (is?) everywhere. If you think the South has a monopoly on it based on something you saw on TV, you're completely naive.

Yes, of course, it is everywhere, and it didn't disappear with the civil rights advances of the 1960s. I don't think OP or anyone is denying that racism only existed in the South (well, except for those who thought that Freedom Riders documentary on WETA was fiction--lord help us), just that she was "baffled" by how bad it was.

I highly recommend checking out PBS documentary about an experiment that an Iowa schoolteacher did in 1968. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/divided/ She divided the classroom up between blue and brown eyes, and the results are telling about how easy it to fall into the discriminator role and what it is like to feel discriminated against. This woman rocks.

Not Just the South
http://freedomroadproject.blogspot.com/2007/10/massive-resistance-in-chicagos.html

"Massive Resistance" in Chicago's Marquette Park (1966)
One of the dark, ugly sides of the civil rights era - and largely ignored or forgotten in the popular history of that time - was the "massive resistance" of many whites throughout the North to even modest attempts to address pervasive racial inequality, particularly when it came to housing....
Afterward, a clearly rattled King told the media, “I’ve been in many demonstrations all across the South, but I can say that I have never seen---even in Mississippi and Alabama---mobs as hostile and hate-filled as I’ve seen in Chicago. I think the people from Mississippi ought to come to Chicago to learn how to hate.”

Racism was (is?) everywhere. If you think the South has a monopoly on it based on something you saw on TV, you're completely naive.

Anonymous wrote:And let's not forget that other racial minorities (other than AA) also suffered lots of racism too, from both AA and Caucasians.

Yes, but AA didn't have any power to do anything systemic to any other minorities. Not an even comparison.